Question for those who think that the players opinions are the ones that matter:
-Do the families (wives, children and parents) have an opinion that matters? Do their grandchildren have an opinion?
Unless the family signs the contract they have no say on what the man does on the ice.
I'm not a big staged fighting fan, but Andrew should of had his ass beat for what he did yesterday.
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Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
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Just watching this bit with him and my views on fighting have gone both ways. I was anti-fighting before tonight. Saw the fight with Gazdik and the pat on the head and moved to pro-fight, but was
On this night of a big GSP fight, I don't feel comfortable with fighting in the league. Us non-fighter folk are not this way because we are big puss ies.
These guys are like soldiers in the army. They put their own health in harms way for the cause of the team, something I would never do and therefore revere. I love these guys, they are heroes to me.
They are fighting the fight I would never fight, but there is no war, no evil nazis or taliban, they are fighting in hockey, there is no higher cause. It is big talented dudes punching themselves in the face for my entertainment.
I want fighting phased out so that it allows the players who have had a borderline evil coach who put them on that path a decent way out.
I want fighting out because i love fighting due to the crappy part in me who loves it. We are taking the best humans in hockey (and they really are the best, look at what they do) and brutalizing them for our enjoyment. Its Django Unchained with better conditions.
Gotcha, they are like soldiers expect all the things that make soldiers, soldiers.
Gratt's fights are not essential to the game. IMO they detract from what I am paying to see, hockey.
Just watching this bit with him and my views on fighting have gone both ways. I was anti-fighting before tonight. Saw the fight with Gazdik and the pat on the head and moved to pro-fight, but was
On this night of a big GSP fight, I don't feel comfortable with fighting in the league. Us non-fighter folk are not this way because we are big puss ies.
These guys are like soldiers in the army. They put their own health in harms way for the cause of the team, something I would never do and therefore revere. I love these guys, they are heroes to me.
They are fighting the fight I would never fight, but there is no war, no evil nazis or taliban, they are fighting in hockey, there is no higher cause. It is big talented dudes punching themselves in the face for my entertainment.
I want fighting phased out so that it allows the players who have had a borderline evil coach who put them on that path a decent way out.
I want fighting out because i love fighting due to the crappy part in me who loves it. We are taking the best humans in hockey (and they really are the best, look at what they do) and brutalizing them for our enjoyment. Its Django Unchained with better conditions.
Short of going to 4 on 4 hockey, how do you get rid of the goons? I would be more for getting rid of the Cookes, Tootoos, and Kaletas of the game (different discussion all together) over the goons, but again how?
Fighting proponents say goons are here to protect against Kaletas.
Expect that their presence does not to curb rats. It never has.
So if we get rid of rats, what need have we of goons? It should be pretty easy to get rid of rats if the NHL way serious. In most leagues if you cheap shot to injure, the punishment is severe.
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...These guys go into this role with their eyes wide open, and are handsomly rewarded. They know what to expect, and are willing pugilists.
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Are you serious? Do they all know to expect that by their mid-thirties they will be at high risk for long-term permanent brain damage that will irrevocably alter their quality of life and well being? I seriously doubt it.
Fighters are in the NHL because they want to be professional hockey players, but are not good enough to play professional hockey. They are enticed by the dream, and are primarily committed to making it happen with little thought to the cost or the risks, but that DOES NOT make it an acceptable risk. This is an issue that cuts right down to the grass roots of hockey. If we were honest with those players who are not good enough to play professional hockey about all the risks; if the amateur and juniour leagues are no longer enabling parties, then these kids will move on, and many will almost certainly be much better for it.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I wish someone had knocked a couple chiclets out of Ference's mouth in Saturdays game. What a d-bag. If he wasn't an 04 poster boy all of cp would have been calling for his head. Prick.
And after the McGrattan interview you get the feeling that McGrattan would not have any animosity towards Ferrence and would not consider addressing the situation.
I remember The Canucks running Sealane as a young Jet. Domi went biserk and took it as a personal affront and made a reference that Bure would not be safe if they were on the ice together.
McGrattan did not seem at all upset that the Oilers took liberties with his charges and has no animosity to them.
All the goons that have taken the gladiator's pledge are not at all needed in the game.
McGrattan's / Gadzik's play within a play did not spark anything. It did not prove anything neither Gadzik or McGrattan were running around knocking over goalies or the other teams skilled players.
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Are you serious? Do they all know to expect that by their mid-thirties they will be at high risk for long-term permanent brain damage that will irrevocably alter their quality of life and well being? I seriously doubt it.
Fighters are in the NHL because they want to be professional hockey players, but are not good enough to play professional hockey. They are enticed by the dream, and are primarily committed to making it happen with little thought to the cost or the risks, but that DOES NOT make it an acceptable risk. This is an issue that cuts right down to the grass roots of hockey. If we were honest with those players who are not good enough to play professional hockey about all the risks; if the amateur and juniour leagues are no longer enabling parties, then these kids will move on, and many will almost certainly be much better for it.
I think that 20 years ago, the answer to that question is a very loud no. In these times? I think if you and I who are just fans know there is at least a substantial risk at irreversible brain damage from fighting, I would have to assume that all hockey players (goons included) probably know this as well. I don't think there are too many people involved with the game today that haven't heard about what is going on, even if they choose to bury their heads in the sand, it would be impossible not to hear enough of the risks to make them curious and start checking it out for themselves.
So after the Ference incident can we effectively trash the "fighting as a deterrent" argument? Because that is totally bunk.
Fighting is a joke and I can't wait for the day that it is banned.
Banned how? Like how hitting from behind is banned? Like how it is banned in Midget hockey? It cannot be banned, just penalized heavier or differently.
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The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
IMO fighting in hockey is a mindset, perpetuated by the presence of goons. By getting rid of goons, which most people would probably go along with, I think the next step, i.e. to get rid of fighting altogether, would probably come much easier.
Fighting in hockey existed 100 years before goons existed.
Simple way to deal with this situation: instigator = suspension.
Two goons wanna have a staged "fight"? Hand out instigators to both of em, give both of them suspensions. Increase suspension based on repeat offenses.
I'm fine with the impassioned "standing up for your teammate" fight, but there HAS to be a cost associated with it, and a 2 min minor is not even remotely close to being sufficient (and that's when the referees get it correctly).
I'm tired of being forced to sit through boring staged fights where the two "goons" give each other pats on the head afterwards. That isn't hockey.
I'm tired of seeing a great, hard check on a player result in retaliation or a fight. That isn't hockey.
I'm also tired of seeing similar positions to mine characterized as "soccer mom". I want to see hard hitting, fast paced physical hockey. I don't want to see a bunch of prima-donnas dropping the gloves the moment they get checked into the boards or stripped of the puck. Increase the cost for behaviour like this and the game will get better.
Are you serious? Do they all know to expect that by their mid-thirties they will be at high risk for long-term permanent brain damage that will irrevocably alter their quality of life and well being? I seriously doubt it.
Fighters are in the NHL because they want to be professional hockey players, but are not good enough to play professional hockey. They are enticed by the dream, and are primarily committed to making it happen with little thought to the cost or the risks, but that DOES NOT make it an acceptable risk. This is an issue that cuts right down to the grass roots of hockey. If we were honest with those players who are not good enough to play professional hockey about all the risks; if the amateur and juniour leagues are no longer enabling parties, then these kids will move on, and many will almost certainly be much better for it.
Fighters are to the NHL what porn stars are to Hollywood.
If you really think about it, you will be very sad. If you have any empathy for Gratts, you will be sad. He is not making that much money, and we see a lot of these guys not live long enough to enjoy anything they have saved.
Exploitation is his only avenue into the league to play the game he loved since he was a kid. These guys are bare knuckle fighting with almost exclusively head shots - even MMA protects its athletes better.
When I see Gazdic and Gratts fight I think of the fireside fight to the death in Django.
Banned how? Like how hitting from behind is banned? Like how it is banned in Midget hockey? It cannot be banned, just penalized heavier or differently.
How many fights do you see in EPL, NFL, NBA, Nascar?
Very, very few.
Why is that? Some of the guys grow up in parts of the world where the only thing is violence. Yet the stop when playing a game. Why?
Because they respect the game.
Hockey can do that too.
If a guy fights = 4 games.
If a guy fights and the other doesn't = 5 games.
Intention to injure plays (knee on knee, boarding) = 5 games
exhibition, regular season, playoffs = all the same
problem solved
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^ You're begging the question. There is no consensus that there is an actual problem to solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgers Nose
If you really think about it, you will be very sad. If you have any empathy for Gratts, you will be sad. He is not making that much money, and we see a lot of these guys not live long enough to enjoy anything they have saved.
In a thread full of hyperbole, that statement is pretty close to the top.
Fighting in hockey existed 100 years before goons existed.
Yes, but the presence of the goon, over the past few decades, has helped to institutionalize fighting in NA hockey.
I agree, we will probably never be able to completely eliminate fighting. But, if serious steps are taken, at least the NA hockey may be able to lose it's present identity with fighting.
When you see concussions and other serious side effects from fighting, and you start hearing comments like, "I went to a fight, and a hockey game broke out", you know we have a problem.
Last edited by flamesfever; 11-18-2013 at 06:18 PM.
