[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Red_Baron]

Will they not be content until things get oilers level of bad?

Maybe Hartley felt that no player could learn anything by watching the last game and needed a redo on his experiment.
I just hope this doesn't turn into MStL 2.0.

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[Bane]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Well all that matters is whether Baertschi thinks he is or not.

If a player's ego is so fragile that he can't handle the coaching staff trying to help him being a more complete player, then he's not the kind of player we need. You shouldn't build a team around emotionally fragile players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Well all that matters is whether Baertschi thinks he is or not.

It only matters if he is right. If he feels like he is being unfairly treated when in fact he is not, then this becomes a character issue, and one that he is completely accountable for.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that Baertschi has any character issues.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Serious??

Eakins vs Yakupov

As much flack as Yakupov is getting, Eakins is making himself look like the bigger idiot of the two.

Also, Sven hasn't come out to say "I don't play defence. It's not my game" like Yakupov has. We've seen Baertschi steadily improve his defence each game.

I'd say the major problem is that the coach is not communicating well with the player. That is literally the coaches job. If he can't do that, then he's not doing his job well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...I'd say the major problem is that the coach is not communicating well with the player. That is literally the coaches job. If he can't do that, then he's not doing his job well.

What reason do you have to think that this, specifically, is the major problem?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

As mentioned by one or two already, perhaps the coaches are seeing something during practice that they don't like? Whatever the reason, I'm not ready to believe that this is the product of some vindictiveness or incompetence without a whole lot more evidence.

Which is a valid argument, in theory.

However, the (only) evidence we do have is Hartley's comments (posted a few pages back) which do not support the decision, as presented by the "this is okay" camp.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What reason do you have to think that this, specifically, is the major problem?

Do you remember when Ron Wilson and Kessel were feuding? Kessel straight up said to the media that he and Wilson don't talk much. The team was terrible and Kessel wasn't much more than a 65 point forward who was terrible in his own end.

Out goes Wilson, in comes Carlyle, who is known to be blunt with his players. Kessel suddenly becomes a point per game forward who isn't completely useless in his own end.

Do you think that any Leafs fans are still on Wilson's side?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

As much flack as Yakupov is getting, Eakins is making himself look like the bigger idiot of the two.

Also, Sven hasn't come out to say "I don't play defence. It's not my game" like Yakupov has. We've seen Baertschi steadily improve his defence each game.

I'd say the major problem is that the coach is not communicating well with the player. That is literally the coaches job. If he can't do that, then he's not doing his job well.

Ok Julien vs Seguin.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Righteous1

Sven needs to simplify his game..and give it his all day in and out.

You mean dump and chase and stifle his creativity. Just like Tim Jackman?

[StrykerSteve]

He's scratched again? I honestly don't understand the logic. He's played well enough to be in this lineup, IMO. If they aren't going to play him, he should be sent to Abby, so so he can at least play.

This organization is going to royally screw this kid up.

[Nsd1]

It's fine that they want him to watch and learn but they should buy him tickets to Detroit or Chicago or Colorado games if he wants pick up any tips. All he's going to learn watching his teammates is how to turn the puck over, get hemmed in the defensive zone, take a bad penalty and get scored on.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Which is a valid argument, in theory.

However, the (only) evidence we do have is Hartley's comments (posted a few pages back) which do not support the decision, as presented by the "this is okay" camp.

I don't think you can claim that Hartley's comments don't fit. Here are Hartley's comments from FiE's post:

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

“I told him on the ice that I want to exactly show him where we need an improvement,” Hartley said. “At the same time, guys like Jackman, McGrattan and Bouma, they’re bringing something every day to the table. Our No. 1 priority as a coaching staff is to win some games ...
“The best way to stay in the lineup on a game-to-game basis is to perform.”

He is really too vague in his explanation to be able to draw many firm conclusions beyond his belief that Baertschi has not performed up to expectations. Hartley does not say what those expectations are, nor how Baertshi has failed to meet them. Only that the coaches do not believe that he has earned a spot for tonight's game. It very well could be the result of something from practice.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have zero problems with this. Let him sit and stew and focus on being a better player. What's really been lost in a lot of the discussion was just how bad he was in the five games leading up to the benching. It wasn't this was out of the blue. His game got worse and worse. For young players, that has consequences. He's not getting to the keys to the corporate washroom handed to him. Earn it.

This type of 'tough love' approach works on lots of prospects. It basically makes them prove that they're an NHL player. Sven has to start bearing down more on both sides of the puck.

Look a similar prospect in LA with Toffoli. Blue chip guy but just hasn't done enough to cement himself to the roster. We wouldn't say that the Kings are ruining Toffoli would we? Or say we sent Sven down like how the Wings have developed Nyquist over the past three seasons who's bounced between both leagues. Would we say that the Wings have ruined Nyquist? No because he's dominating the AHL and is showing that he's ready.

Anyway, I'm ranting. Basic point, this is no big deal. Stop treating it as such.

Just wanted to reply to this, but Toffoli either plays on the 2nd line or in the AHL I believe.

I'm of the belief that if you don't think Sven can play in the NHL, let him play in the AHL. I honestly would rather see top prospects play rather then sit and watch (sounds like a really stupid way to improve). If its not here, then somewhere else.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Which is a valid argument, in theory.

However, the (only) evidence we do have is Hartley's comments (posted a few pages back) which do not support the decision, as presented by the "this is okay" camp.

If you require simple reasons to explain this, and are choosing to take everything litterally that is being said (even though coaches are never completely litteral with the media), then here's a real litteral reason on why Sven is sitting (although I don't think it's why):

Sven, based on PPG is on pace for a 30 point season. His line mates for the bulk of the games he's played are on pace for an 87 and 60 point seasons respectively. Sven is not pulling his weight based on the opportunities he's been presented, based on the performance of his peers (Jiri and Sean), or the expectations of him going into the season.

So he sits. There is a very uncomplicated reason to sit the guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

...I'm of the belief that if you don't think Sven can play in the NHL, let him play in the AHL. I honestly would rather see top prospects play rather then sit and watch (sounds like a really stupid way to improve). If its not here, then somewhere else.

I think it is fair to conclude that the coaches do believe that Baertschi can play in the NHL, which is why they are not punching his ticket to Abbotsford. This is more a case of him not performing up to expectations that they are confident he can meet, now. Send players to play in the AHL if they are clearly overwhelmed and showing signs that they are not ready. Baertschi doesn't really fall into that group.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

... *rabble, rabble* Wlson ... Kessel *rabble, rabble* Leafs suck ...

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Do you have any actual reasons for thinking that Coach Hartley is not effectively communicating with his players?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

If you require simple reasons to explain this, and are choosing to take everything litterally that is being said (even though coaches are never completely litteral with the media), then here's a real litteral reason on why Sven is sitting (although I don't think it's why):

Sven, based on PPG is on pace for a 30 point season. His line mates for the bulk of the games he's played are on pace for an 87 and 60 point seasons respectively. Sven is not pulling his weight based on the opportunities he's been presented, based on the performance of his peers (Jiri and Sean), or the expectations of him going into the season.

So he sits. There is a very uncomplicated reason to sit the guy.

Completely flawed argument. I can think of at least 5 goals in which Baertschi contributed towards but was not awarded a point.

His linemates wouldn't be scoring at those paces if he wasn't on their line.

No surprise that their production has plummeted since Hartley decided to go full ######.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Do you have any actual reasons for thinking that Coach Hartley is not effectively communicating with his players?

That moment you realise Ashasx doesn't even watch the Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Completely flawed argument. I can think of at least 5 goals in which Baertschi contributed towards but was not awarded a point.

His linemates wouldn't be scoring at those paces if he wasn't on their line.

No surprise that their production has plummeted since Hartley decided to go full ######.

"plummetted"?! It was one game, and Hudler scored the only goal.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think you can claim that Hartley's comments don't fit. Here are Hartley's comments from FiE's post:


He is really too vague in his explanation to be able to draw many firm conclusions beyond his belief that Baertschi has not performed up to expectations. Hartley does not say what those expectations are, nor how Baertshi has failed to meet them. Only that the coaches do not believe that he has earned a spot for tonight's game. It very well could be the result of something from practice.

I'm glad that Hartley was being vague in the media about it. The last thing we need is a circus.

If it was something like finding out that Sven was joking around while he was supposed to be training or going through videos with the coaches, would it be a good idea for Hartely to air that publicly?

I'm not saying that is the issue, but there are literally dozens of issues it could be, half of which would be Baertschi's fault.