[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Lego Man]

I think CP is over reacting.

As long as Sven and Hartley truly understand each other, I think this is beneficial to the long-term future of the Flames. After all, the Flames aren't focusing on making the playoffs this year - they are focusing on building a team 4 years down the road.

If Sven understands this, he'll clue in to the fact that he'll play 500 games straight in a few years time.

Patience Flames fans.... patience.

[Erick Estrada]

It's one thing to scratch Sven but to have Jackman on that line in his place is pretty inexcusable IMO. I've said before I'm not a Hartley fan and now I finally have an excuse this season to crap on him. Bad coach. Jackman is a part time 4th liner and this reeks of the Comeau misuse last year that didn't ever work out favorably for the Flames. Dumb.

[SuperMatt18]

Makes no sense to scratch him tonight.

With Glencross out you tell him "Top Six LW spot just opened up, go show me why you deserve it."

You don't just sit him in the pressbox again.

[Ashasx]

@Ashasx 13m
Jesus Christ, Hartley. #FreeSven
Favourited by Laura Cal

[Dion]

Jackman is a goon, thug, enforcer or whatever you want to call a part time 4th line player. Having him play with Hudler and Monahan is an absolute joke!

[Vinny01]

Terrible to scratch him again. Jackman in the top 9 is horrible ad should never be done

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by fotze

AS long as they are benching him right and communicating (a LOT) with him, I am ok with it. I would hope the reporters ask a few tough questions though.

What are you guys doing to ensure this does not go the Savard route? What is Sven doing?

What types of things are you looking for from Sven? Is it points, hustle, defensive zone coverage?

When you compare Monahan to Sven, what is Monahan doing to stay that Sven is not?

If Sven had a Canadian passport would that make a difference? (I would only ask that if I was Larry Brooks).

The question then becomes, if Sven had a Canadian passport, would he be sitting?

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by fotze

AS long as they are benching him right and communicating (a LOT) with him, I am ok with it. I would hope the reporters ask a few tough questions though.

What are you guys doing to ensure this does not go the Savard route? What is Sven doing?

What types of things are you looking for from Sven? Is it points, hustle, defensive zone coverage?

When you compare Monahan to Sven, what is Monahan doing to stay that Sven is not?

If Sven had a Canadian passport would that make a difference? (I would only ask that if I was Larry Brooks).

OT, but love the new avatar

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by fotze

AS long as they are benching him right and communicating (a LOT) with him, I am ok with it. I would hope the reporters ask a few tough questions though.

What are you guys doing to ensure this does not go the Savard route? What is Sven doing?

What types of things are you looking for from Sven? Is it points, hustle, defensive zone coverage?

When you compare Monahan to Sven, what is Monahan doing to stay that Sven is not?

If Sven had a Canadian passport would that make a difference? (I would only ask that if I was Larry Brooks).

Agree with this. We often make big mistakes when our own perceptions become reality.

The answers to all of those could be Hartley is totally in the wrong. That Sven could learn more by making mistakes but learning from them.

It also could be there was a practice today and the last one onto the ice was Sven and the first one on the ice was Monahan. So we are sending another message Sven.

We really don't know the whole story here so I'm in the same camp as Fotze, and the questions asked by Fotze should be answered honestly.

[Fan in Exile]

I've figured it out. Jackman has 63 points in 397 games in his career. That means he gets a point every 6.3 games.
This season he has no points in seven games.

HE'S DUE!!

Brilliant Bob, brilliant.

[northcrunk]

Hartley is going to have a rabid fanbase calling for him to be fired if he is not carefull.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

EFFFFF. This sounds like Marc Savard all over again!!!!

Get on the phones Jets!

A few things on that:

- Hartley is much better and much more established coach then Greg Gilbert is, was or ever will be. So much less of a concern.
- Other "young" players under Hartley are improving and exceeding expectations. We have real life examples right in front of us that the guy doesn't hate young players. Monohan, Colborne, heck even Bouma and Brodie are all improving and developing nicely under this regime.

- Also, people assume that the Flames / Gilbert miss read the Savard situation. For the record, I think they did, but there is also the chance that with out the tough love the Flames gave him, and his failure in Calgary, Savard might not have turned into the player he was. It's not like Savard "didn't change" anything and went on to be a success. He became a success when he started to do the things Calgary wanted him to do. But I agree, the Flames back then (not the same folks running the Flames now remember) totally gave up on Savard way too quickly.

It be one thing if none of the younger guys on this team aren't getting better and finding ways to succeed and be a part of team on a regular basis, but that's not the case. Sven and Backlund are struggling to meet expectation OF THEM. That last point is important. It's not about how they compare to other vets, because we are a rebuilding team and we aren't trying to ice our best line up each game. We are trying to develop what young talent we have into being the best players.

Again, that's where many get confused. More ice time doesn't equal best development, ALL the time. It can, but not always, and my only beef is that it's a little to early to be suggesting sitting Sven for some games here and there is bad for him. Especially when the coach seems to be doing a good job of improving the youngs guys as a whole (which includes Sven).

If Calgary was a contending team and Sven was our draft pick. He'd likely have to be earning his ice time and pushing a much stronger line up of vets out to earn his spot. That's probably the best way to develop a player. I think Hartley and the staff are trying to "simulate" this for all our young players. Rather than hold them accountible to beat out some of the weak ass vets we have on this team, they are holding them accountible to there potential, and what they expect from each player as if they were on a contending team. Long run, I think that's what will be best for all our young guys.

Clearly Hartley and co feel like Sven is / will be a special player, and if he were competing on a spot for a contending Flames team, should have the ability to still crack the line up. Therefore, this is the benchmark they hold him to, and I for one am glad. If all Sven had to do in our next couple of re-building years is be better than Jackman, he's not going to improve as much as he could.

[Stanley]

Well on the bright side, it gives Reinhart a shot at proving himself...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

@Ashasx 13m
Jesus Christ, Hartley. #FreeSven
Favourited by Laura Cal

That's rad.

[MissTeeks]

Wes Gilbertson‏@SUNGilbertson3m
#Flames Sven Baertschi: "You want to help the team win. When you're not out there, you just sit around and watch the game. It sucks."

Wes Gilbertson‏@SUNGilbertson2m

#Flames LW Sven Baertschi, a healthy scratch again tonight, said he really appreciates support he's received from teammates and fans.

Wes Gilbertson‏@SUNGilbertson4m

#Flames LW Sven Baertschi: “It's nice when you turn on Twitter and you've got a lot of people that tell you to keep your head up.”

Wes Gilbertson‏@SUNGilbertson2m

More from Baertschi on fan support: “They're there for you and they want to help you in good and bad times. I really appreciate that.”

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by fotze

AS long as they are benching him right and communicating (a LOT) with him, I am ok with it. I would hope the reporters ask a few tough questions though.

What are you guys doing to ensure this does not go the Savard route? What is Sven doing?

What types of things are you looking for from Sven? Is it points, hustle, defensive zone coverage?

When you compare Monahan to Sven, what is Monahan doing to stay that Sven is not?

If Sven had a Canadian passport would that make a difference? (I would only ask that if I was Larry Brooks).

I'd say the answer to the bold is pretty easy. Mono is easily exceediing any expectations of what this team thought his abilities and state of development would be this year, Sven, is likely underperforming to his.

And that's all that matters. Doesn't actually matter if Sven was outperforming Mono, because the expectations of Sven entering his 3rd camp and Mono entering is 1st are and should be completely different.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by fotze

AS long as they are benching him right and communicating (a LOT) with him, I am ok with it. I would hope the reporters ask a few tough questions though.

What are you guys doing to ensure this does not go the Savard route? What is Sven doing?

This is what I believe to be the biggest question.

Again, Sven came into prospect camp with an entitlement attitude and insulted he had to be there. He showed that in his play (cross checking an opposing Flames prospect in the throat after they checked him) and showed it in his interviews stating that this camp was nothing, main camp was everything. I believe even saying he didn't prepare for Prospect Camp at all.

Same thing happened when he showed up for the Rookie/Young Stars games and camp. You could see in the game against the UofC that he was not happy to be there. He felt he was above this and that playing with the other prospects was insulting to his abilities.

Last year when Hartley demoted him, he took it hard and brought that entitlement attitude to Abbotsford with him. The team had to pull him out of his funk in order to get production out of him. If he truly was a professional, he would have pulled up his big boy pants, gone to Abbotsford and tore up the AHL so he could figuratively give the middle finger to the Flames and show he doesn't belong in the AHL.

I don't think Sven is a victim of anything other then his own notions of how he should be treated. I do think we have a borderline prima donna on our hands and Hartley is trying to correct the problem before it gets out of control. I don't see this whole Hartley monster the majority seem to try to make him out to be. I'm seeing more of a stern father where he will put his foot up your ass if you need it. I think that's what this is so that Sven can start getting himself back in the right direction.

[Jebus]

Not a fan of sitting Sven again.

I can see wanting to get some beef in the lineup against St Louis as they are a big, physical team. That said, Sven might actually score a goal, or set one up. Jackman is a black hole for the offense on that line.

Maybe the answer is not haveing Sven and Hudler on the same line in this game. Put Jones with the rookies and slide Hudler over to a more veteran line.

Also, get Backlund away from McGratton/Jackman FFS!

.....

Wow. Just went to look at the projected lines for tonight. Ug-ly.
This does not bode well for our boys in red.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Makes no sense to scratch him tonight.

With Glencross out you tell him "Top Six LW spot just opened up, go show me why you deserve it."

You don't just sit him in the pressbox again.

This is what bothers me more than anything. I can certainly get behind it if there is a mutual understanding, but when a long-term injury happens to your top player at Sven's position, that is exactly the time to let him run with it IMO. Just foolish.

[Dion]