We better be on the phones with Anaheim...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

A rookie replacement goalie has one good game and some of you are already planning the cup parade.

If he keeps a SV% above .900 for 15 games, I'll be more comfortable calling Berra the starter for the Flames. Until then, it's all just hype.

It all has to start somewhere. It's not hype.... I think most people are just happy that we had a great team effort with solid goaltending. We all knew going into this season that it was going to be a tough one, so we have to savour the successes along the way or else we will go crazy.

I like the prospect of Berra and Ramo pushing each other to be better. They are at the same points in their careers and hungry to play in the NHL. MacDonald was good enough to absorb losses so Ramo wouldn't have to take them all, but he wasn't going to push Ramo to be better either. Everyone knew Ramo was in the longer term plans no matter what, but now with Berra competing with him directly, he should feel some extra motivation.

Personally, I am a fan of goalie "1A/1B" situations because of the healthy competition it creates. I never had the sense that MacDonald was valid competition for Ramo... he was more or less, just temporary stop-gap.

[FAN]

I don't agree with the idea of seeing what the team has first before pursuing the possibility of an upgrade. You rarely win with a wait and see approach. You win by being ahead of the curve. That means you try to project players. If you don't believe that Ramo or Berra etc. are #1 goalies, then you don't wait and see if they prove your wrong. If you aren't sure, then you might not be in a rush to seek an upgrade but if there's a clear upgrade available and the price is right you pursue it.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Personally, I am a fan of goalie "1A/1B" situations because of the healthy competition it creates.

I'm the opposite. I believe goalies need a chance to run with it. Consistency is a requirement of a #1 goalie in this league and a #1 goalie needs to be able to string together some solid performances or wins over a 55-60+ game workload. There are some goalies who simply don't respond well to competition and need to know that he doesn't need to be looking over his shoulder because he's the guy. I think Kipper was one of them and Mike Smith is another and I'm sure there are others. Then there's the playoffs, where you really can't win with a 1A/1B situation.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Sorry to "be that guy", but it's "him and me"

You're being the worst right now.

[kyuss275]

Anaheim better be on the phone with the Flames asking for Berra. Flames will take Getzlaf and Gibson. LOL

[Stay Golden]

3-4 years from now it will be Gillies For now i hope Berra emerges over Ramo. Just not sold on Ramo.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

People are happy with the performance of their rookie goalie, which not one person has ever heard of until the JayBo trade...

Orly? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong.

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

He may not be that top 10 goalie yet, but he has all the tools to do it if he wants it.

Put away the pom poms, fanboy.
He had one good game. That is your assessment of potential to be a top 10 NHL goaltender? You're the one talking out your ass.

[FlameZilla]

If Berra is half as good as he demonstrated last night then I think we have a suitable stop-gap goalie until Gillies is ready. He can be our Roman Turek until the next Kipper reveals himself.

I'd still like to find a big, physical but mobile & preferably right-shooting defenseman to add to the top 4. Pre-apex, etc. That should be the priority.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

He may not be that top 10 goalie yet, but he has all the tools to do it if he wants it.

wow.

All that from 1 game?

[TjRhythmic]

Well, Berra has played more then one game. He played in the Swiss league, the world championships, AHL, and now the NHL... so it's been more then 1 game.

And when I say Berra has the tools to be a great goalie in this league, he does. He's big. Sound position. He's quiet, efficient, in his movement. Keeps his glove high. Has quick legs. Good rebound control. Good stick. Good puck handler. Good lateral movement.

I consider that a decent tool box.

Now, if he wants it.... If he is willing to work, and develop those tools, then he has a chance, the potential to be a top goalie.

Take into account his mental game... that could be a big factor as well to whether or not it happens.

I didn't make a guarantee that he would be. Never said that, although seems to be assumed that's what I meant. At the end of my sentence I said... he has the tools to do it IF he wants it... Meaning that he can prosper, or he can bust. Again, it's all up to him.

He has work to do, and if he works hard, and develops his already strong tools, then the sky is the limit. For him or any player.

Will it happen, time will tell... it's up to him. If it doesn't happen, I won't be surprised. If it does happen, again, I won't be surprised.

Granted, I probably could have worded it better, at first glance it looks like I'm anointing him... I'm not, I hope for the best with all the players in the system. I'm not upset when they don't pan out, though I am happy when the do. I'm a fan. I love the Flames.

[vilzeh]

I doubt you have watched him play in the: Swiss league nor the World Championships (Maybe the latter, depends where you're from!). He was pretty average on the weak Swiss League, he was good in the world championships, he's been average in the AHL, and now he has played 1 NHL game.

He might have the tools, but so does so many other goaltenders who just won't get there, he had a good start, lets give him more games before we plan his future in this organization, I mean, Rämö was way better than Berra ever was in Europe. Lets hope his game evaluates to the NA style much better.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I doubt you have watched him play in the: Swiss league nor the World Championships (Maybe the latter, depends where you're from!). He was pretty average on the weak Swiss League, he was good in the world championships, he's been average in the AHL, and now he has played 1 NHL game.

He might have the tools, but so does so many other goaltenders who just won't get there, he had a good start, lets give him more games before we plan his future in this organization, I mean, Rämö was way better than Berra ever was in Europe. Lets hope his game evaluates to the NA style much better.

Exactly, it's way too early to place him on any pedestal. The most disturbing was Leland Irving and some of the highlight reel saves he would make. CP fell in love early, until they finally realized his positioning was horrific, causing him to make these types of stops.

I liked Berra's reflexes, his positioning and lack of over movement. Hopefully he and Ramo share starts from now to the end and lets see the numbers after the season.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

I doubt you have watched him play in the: Swiss league nor the World Championships (Maybe the latter, depends where you're from!). He was pretty average on the weak Swiss League, he was good in the world championships, he's been average in the AHL, and now he has played 1 NHL game.

He might have the tools, but so does so many other goaltenders who just won't get there, he had a good start, lets give him more games before we plan his future in this organization, I mean, Rämö was way better than Berra ever was in Europe. Lets hope his game evaluates to the NA style much better.

He won back to back NLA goaltender of the year awards before coming over to play in Calgary. I would hardly call that "average"... clearly he was a dominant player over there. Those accolades put him in good company as well seeing as both Jonas Hiller and Cristobal Huet have each won that award twice. I can't help but to think that you are selling his body of work short. He has more individual awards to his name than Karri Ramo, and also has a better international track record as well.

[Vulcan]

Berra was very very good against the Hawks. He showed he has the potential to be our #1 goalie. Like most rookies he'll probably be inconsistent, as he showed in Abbotsford, but he's sure worth being patient with.

[FlameZilla]

What I like about the acquisitions of Berra and Ramo is the acknowledgement that most goalies take a few extra years to develop.

Whereas forwards often successfully break into the league at 20 to 24 years of age, and defenders at 22-26, many solid goalies are 26-29 before they find their feet and win a starting job. As a result, lots of young goalies are journeymen until they get those extra years of experience & composure.

Kipper was in that age bracket & had spent many years in obscurity until the right opportunity found him when he happened to be ready for it. Giguere was another one who kicked around the league for awhile before he showed the ability that had made him a top-ranked prospect. I see Al Montoya is now starting to show some consistency at the age of 28, and he's putting up numbers that show why he was once considered a top 6 pick.

Berra isn't just some beer league free agent. He was a 4th round pick & won the Swiss equivalent of the Vezina twice in a row before we acquired him. At 26 he's at the age where goalies start to live up to their potential. He's roughly the same age as Hiller was the year he came over (1 year older, I believe).

I don't see any reason to panic and find another goalie just for the sake of it. Some of us seem to be forgetting that we're rebuilding, and no longer in 'win now' mode. Despite our better-than-expected start we're already off the pace in our division & the wild card spot.

[FlamesAddiction]

It seems to me that too many people are making judgements based on stats or isolated performances. It has been noted in the past that Berra was the best player on his Swiss team for a few seasons, and that he was regularly hung out to dry. Whether or not that translates to NHL success, no one knows yet. Getting pulled in the AHL isn't a kiss of death either. I'm sure lots of good goalies have had bad games even in the minors. There are very few goalies in the league that do not have bad games once in a while (or even bad streaks).

The same thing goes with Ramo. He was highly touted in Russia for a few seasons, and as soon as the Flames bring him over, half the fans are writing him off based on stats. All you have to do is watch him to see that he was fundamentally better than MacDonald even if his stats were not as good. Even Kiprusoff has some average statistical years in the NHL , but we all knew he was still elite even when his stats weren't. Anyone who says that Ramo was average in Russia because of his stats and did not watch the games, is either trolling or severely jaded.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

Well, Berra has played more then one game. He played in the Swiss league, the world championships, AHL, and now the NHL... so it's been more then 1 game.

And when I say Berra has the tools to be a great goalie in this league, he does. He's big. Sound position. He's quiet, efficient, in his movement. Keeps his glove high. Has quick legs. Good rebound control. Good stick. Good puck handler. Good lateral movement.

I consider that a decent tool box.

Now, if he wants it.... If he is willing to work, and develop those tools, then he has a chance, the potential to be a top goalie.

Take into account his mental game... that could be a big factor as well to whether or not it happens.

I didn't make a guarantee that he would be. Never said that, although seems to be assumed that's what I meant. At the end of my sentence I said... he has the tools to do it IF he wants it... Meaning that he can prosper, or he can bust. Again, it's all up to him.

He has work to do, and if he works hard, and develops his already strong tools, then the sky is the limit. For him or any player.

Will it happen, time will tell... it's up to him. If it doesn't happen, I won't be surprised. If it does happen, again, I won't be surprised.

Granted, I probably could have worded it better, at first glance it looks like I'm anointing him... I'm not, I hope for the best with all the players in the system. I'm not upset when they don't pan out, though I am happy when the do. I'm a fan. I love the Flames.

Agreed. He definitely has a solid tool box.

Hopefully he can learn how to wield it consistently in the NHL.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It seems to me that too many people are making judgements based on stats or isolated performances. It has been noted in the past that Berra was the best player on his Swiss team for a few seasons, and that he was regularly hung out to dry. Whether or not that translates to NHL success, no one knows yet. Getting pulled in the AHL isn't a kiss of death either. I'm sure lots of good goalies have had bad games even in the minors. There are very few goalies in the league that do not have bad games once in a while (or even bad streaks).

The same thing goes with Ramo. He was highly touted in Russia for a few seasons, and as soon as the Flames bring him over, half the fans are writing him off based on stats. All you have to do is watch him to see that he was fundamentally better than MacDonald even if his stats were not as good. Even Kiprusoff has some average statistical years in the NHL , but we all knew he was still elite even when his stats weren't. Anyone who says that Ramo was average is Russia because of his stats and did not watch the games, is either trolling or severely jaded.

Ramo isn't elite nor is he likely starter material. I don't need to see stats to see that he's been average at best. Making some good saves and letting in some shots that elite starters would save. Kipper had his moments where he wasn't very good but we had past history to know that he still had the ability to steal games. All we know about Ramo is that he wasn't good enough in his first NHL stint and played in Russia which isn't exactly an indicator of NHL competence. Hartley has seen more of Ramo than anyone in practices and games and it's obvious he doesn't feel overly high on him right now which is why Berra is starting now. We need to see more of Bera to draw any conclusions but his performance against the Hawks was head and shoulders better than anything we have seen to date from Ramo and MacDonald.

I understand why some fans really want Ramo to be good (we should all hope for a guy or two to break through) but I am a little miffed at the excuses some of you are making for his play which hasn't been markedly better than MacDonald.

[strombad]

I'm just going to go on record here and say:
People are using the "tools/toolbox" analogy like it's going out of style. It's one of the WORST hockey-talk phrases out there, it's completely meaningless.

EVERY goalie in the NHL has "the tools," that's how they make the NHL. Suggesting that Berra has the tools but just needs to put it together is basically the exact same as saying "Well he can play goaltender pretty great sometimes he just needs to do it all the time." Yeah, no kidding. I don't mean any offence to you guys who like using the phrase, but it's about a meaningful as some great phrases like:
"110 percent"
"At the end of the day, it is what it is"
"Go to the dirty areas"
"Play a full sixty minutes"

Just another horrid and meaningless hockey cliché.
/rantover

Anyways, on topic: as Estrada essentially said, I really hope we're not banking on Ramo to suddenly turn a corner here. He is playing the same way he has played his whole career, even in the KHL. He was on a stacked KHL team, and traffic and pressure on the net isn't as hot over there, so the glaring rebounds and flopping around that he does from time to time? Those aren't magically going to evaporate.

As for Berra, he's a bit of lesser known quantity for me. He's played above average throughout his career, and with a 42 save effort I don't think you can argue that the guy has talent. I know he's known for giving up an absolute stinker of a game now and then, so if we're patient through those, he may very well be a dependable starter.

Ramo though? I think it's unlikely.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by strombad

[...]
Anyways, on topic: as Estrada essentially said, I really hope we're not banking on Ramo to suddenly turn a corner here. He is playing the same way he has played his whole career, even in the KHL. He was on a stacked KHL team, and traffic and pressure on the net isn't as hot over there, so the glaring rebounds and flopping around that he does from time to time? Those aren't magically going to evaporate.
[...]

How much did you watch him in the KHL?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ramo isn't elite nor is he likely starter material. I don't need to see stats to see that he's been average at best. Making some good saves and letting in some shots that elite starters would save. Kipper had his moments where he wasn't very good but we had past history to know that he still had the ability to steal games. All we know about Ramo is that he wasn't good enough in his first NHL stint and played in Russia which isn't exactly an indicator of NHL competence. Hartley has seen more of Ramo than anyone in practices and games and it's obvious he doesn't feel overly high on him right now which is why Berra is starting now. We need to see more of Bera to draw any conclusions but his performance against the Hawks was head and shoulders better than anything we have seen to date from Ramo and MacDonald.

I understand why some fans really want Ramo to be good (we should all hope for a guy or two to break through) but I am a little miffed at the excuses some of you are making for his play which hasn't been markedly better than MacDonald.

6 NHL games after 4 years of playing in the KHL.

I don't even think JoJo Savard would go out on that limb. If you can tell how good he will be at this point, you should be a pro-scout in the NHL.