XBone Vs PS4 Vs PC - VIDEOGAME POLITICS THUNDERDOME - PS4:900p-XBone:720p-PC::smug:

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I would hope so, Kinect is costing you an additional $100 and a console that is outputting at a lower resolution than its direct competition at launch.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What are you talking about?

You have a campaign here were you are trying to make people believe the XB1 can't output games at 1080p which is completely untrue.

Come on man, let's leave out the silly conspiracy theories about campaigns or fanboyisms. I've got no horse in this race with both my pre-orders still, other than to discuss video gaming in general. I said nothing about the Xbone not being able to output 1080p at all or through other games. That's not even up for debate - both systems can - hell even the Wii U can!

I said LOWER RESOLUTIONS and I am looking at actual performance with the games that are common and both available on the two consoles. The two games that are arguably some of the two biggest franchises in gaming today:

Battlefield 4:
Xbone: 720p PS4: 900p (40% more pixels/resolution)

Call of Duty:
Xbone: 720p PS4: 1080P (125% more pixels/resolution)

Is this factually incorrect?

I'm not sure what you are even arguing - Are you saying that 720p is better than 1080p? This is comparing common games with common game developers on each system. Or are you arguing because you don't like me for some reason or the facts that I am listing in a thread discussing a new console launch?

Frankly, the more interesting implication to me is not the fact that the resolution is lower on the Xbone on these common games. What intrigues me is WHY they were forced to reduce the resolution in the first place. Were the drivers less efficient at this early stage (and will improve faster than the PS4?), or that the hardware indeed weaker perhaps, or did they use a random number generator, or they let a summer student make the call or does Infinity Ward and DICE have a vast "campaign or conspiracy" to make the Xbone look bad, etc?

[flamesfan6]

It's probably just because i was able to actually have it in my hands, but for some weird reason I just picked up a ps4 eye from futureshop.. wasn't planning on getting it. There were 3 of them there...

I already pre-ordered an extra controller, but FS had a bunch of controllers to buy as well, and a couple of some sort of headset.

This is Victoria Futureshop btw...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Come on man, let's leave out the silly conspiracy theories about campaigns or fanboyisms. I've got no horse in this race with both my pre-orders still, other than to discuss video gaming in general. I said nothing about the Xbone not being able to output 1080p at all or through other games. That's not even up for debate - both systems can - hell even the Wii U can!

I said LOWER RESOLUTIONS and I am looking at actual performance with the games that are common and both available on the two consoles. The two games that are arguably some of the two biggest franchises in gaming today:

Battlefield 4:
Xbone: 720p PS4: 900p (40% more pixels/resolution)

Call of Duty:
Xbone: 720p PS4: 1080P (125% more pixels/resolution)

Is this factually incorrect?

I'm not sure what you are even arguing - Are you saying that 720p is better than 1080p? This is comparing common games with common game developers on each system. Or are you arguing because you don't like me for some reason or the facts that I am listing in a thread discussing a new console launch?

Frankly, the more interesting implication to me is not the fact that the resolution is lower on the Xbone on these common games. What intrigues me is WHY they were forced to reduce the resolution in the first place. Were the drivers less efficient at this early stage (and will improve faster than the PS4?), or that the hardware indeed weaker perhaps, or did they use a random number generator, or they let a summer student make the call or does Infinity Ward and DICE have a vast "campaign or conspiracy" to make the Xbone look bad, etc?

Just answer one question. Does the XB1 output games at 1080p resolution? Yes or no reply.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just answer one question. Does the XB1 output games at 1080p resolution? Yes or no reply.

You mean does it upscale in some fashion and fill the TV? Sure. So you are saying native 720p is better than native 1080p?

Come on man! Why even both looking at getting a Xbone or PS4 at all then? Just let your current 360 or PS3 upscale and you're set for all time. You can even say an Atari is outputting games at 4K resolution because you could blow it up to fill a 4K TV. But that's just silly and clearly not true.

Every single gaming console in history could fill your 1080p TV. Hell, you could "upscale" a single pixel to 1080p. Is that single pixel upscalled to 1080p better than a native 1080p resolution?

Let's stop the silliness, I have no beef with you sir. Like I said, I've always appreciated your insight and input in the tech threads. I might not always agree with you but the difference in resolution between the two consoles is real and factual at this stage in time. It could certainly change relatively speaking as we march away from launch but let's step away from the crazy talk.

(At least try to spin it as the Xbone 720p version having better lighting effects or more stable frame rate or something. )

[chemgear]

Anyhow, enough of the silliness, let's get back on track and on the Hype Train to the THUNDERDOME!!!

Anybody else check out that Killzone high bitrate video slice? Kinda like the Jackfrags 1440p video channel, I'd check that rather than any compressed artifacted normal channel/website video. I wish they'd do that for Battlefield or Call of Duty more but it'll come soon enough - 2/3 weeks left!

Obviously no direct performance comparisons with Xbone here being Killzone and all. I've never been a huge fan of the series but this seems to be looking pretty good. This is what I've seen around the net so far - not my screen captures:

Spoiler!

Those glove textures and lighting on grenade pin:


Some SUB 1080p and SUB 60 fps animated gifs:








But even with this high bitrate video slice, there is still some minor compression showing up. These are apparently some direct frame buffer captures:

It'll be good to actually see all these various games on both consoles and in-person soon. Sooooooon.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Let's stop the silliness, I have no beef with you sir. Like I said, I've always appreciated your insight and input in the tech threads. I might not always agree with you but the difference in resolution between the two consoles is real and factual at this stage in time. It could certainly change relatively speaking as we march away from launch but let's step away from the crazy talk.

(At least try to spin it as

I'm actually asking you to stop with the silliness. This thread is about more than your crusade against the Xbox One. I think everyone understands your opinion by now. There's no need to rehash the same thing over and over because a couple of 3rd party games are launching at lower resolution on XB1. I believe the COD head of development (IGN article) admitted the XB1 has nicer looking textures and that most people won't be able to tell any difference between them.

[rubecube]

So for someone with an older TV that only puts out 720p/1080i, is it even worth getting a PS4 before I invest in a new TV?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So for someone with an older TV that only puts out 720p/1080i, is it even worth getting a PS4 before I invest in a new TV?

It will still look very nice even at 720p. If you can afford it I would still go ahead and get the PS4 as really the difference between 720p and 1080p isn't nearly as noticeable as some would like you to believe.

[polak]

Cancelled my ps4 preorder today... Adult priorities suck.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This thread is about more than your crusade against the Xbox One. I think everyone understands your opinion by now. There's no need to rehash the same thing over and over because a couple of 3rd party games are launching at lower resolution on XB1. I believe the COD head of development (IGN article) admitted the XB1 has nicer looking textures and that most people won't be able to tell any difference between them.

Yup, like you said about that IGN article, the executive producer said they had to keep the resolution on the Xbone lower to maintain the 60 fps which was (rightly) the priority for any shooter - but people might actually think textures look better on the Xbone:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/11/0...on-playstation

"That’s just the way the optimisation came out to. To keep a smooth frame rate we needed to be 720p on Xbox One. That being said, it is being upscaled to 1080p, so it is outputting 1080p on your TV, and for the most part the game does look really good. Some people actually think the textures look a little bit nicer maybe on Xbox than they do on PS4."
And I'm sure you right, there are people that can't tell the difference between 720p, 900p or 1080p (or even higher for that matter).


But I'm sorry that you feel that way about the news coming out and the discussion about the new consoles. You might want to avoid the discussion on the other gaming websites and forums as there is certainly a lot of back and forth as news has been trickling out. Regardless, I'm happy to politely agree to disagree with you, and without wild claims that you might have any crazy crusades of your own. (You are certainly not a "3 post user" that works at Microsoft!)

As always, I look forward to your posts and thoughts about new consoles in the thread as much as anybody else's.

It is certainly a great time to be a gamer!

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by polak

Cancelled my ps4 preorder today... Adult priorities suck.

Keep the pre-order and sell it for profit!

Both consoles are selling at a premium on ebay right now.

[Meelapo]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So for someone with an older TV that only puts out 720p/1080i, is it even worth getting a PS4 before I invest in a new TV?

I imagine that for someone that has a 720p/1080i TV the money would be better invested in a new TV rather than a console.

[mdubz]

Are there any stores that will have the PS4 in stock for those who haven't pre-ordered yet?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Are there any stores that will have the PS4 in stock for those who haven't pre-ordered yet?

The standard EB Games, Future Shop, Best Buy, Walmart will likely have a few but they will likely get snapped up pretty quick.

I would say your chances at getting one on launch are slim, unless you plan on lining up early. Check Staples, apparently they were still taking pre-orders not too long ago.

[SuperMatt18]

Each Best Buy/ Futureshop will have 25 units allocated per store that are not pre-ordered.

Not next gen but if this actually works that could be crazy.

http://www.realsg.com/2013/11/gran-t...to-create.html

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Keep the pre-order and sell it for profit!

Both consoles are selling at a premium on ebay right now.

I'm actually somewhat annoyed with myself. I had 5 on pre-order, but cancelled two of them because they were coming from Amazon and BestBuy, which would mean I would have had to pay for shipping if I wanted to return them. Doesn't look like I would've have any trouble offloading them now.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm actually somewhat annoyed with myself. I had 5 on pre-order, but cancelled two of them because they were coming from Amazon and BestBuy, which would mean I would have had to pay for shipping if I wanted to return them. Doesn't look like I would've have any trouble offloading them now.

LOL, 5?!

Hmmm, returns to Amazon.ca are free. And you could always return Bestbuy directly to the store. Unless you mean the US websites, then it would be a bit more of a hassle.

[ernie]

Also worth mentioning that developers aren't thinking that future games will always be limited to 720p and then upscaled. They fully believe that as they get experience developing for the console it will all be 1080p native. Also keep in mind that some PS4 launch games are also being upscaled and not running native 1080p.

Chalk it up to teething pains more than anything.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by ernie

Also worth mentioning that developers aren't thinking that future games will always be limited to 720p and then upscaled. They fully believe that as they get experience developing for the console it will all be 1080p native. Also keep in mind that some PS4 launch games are also being upscaled and not running native 1080p.

Chalk it up to teething pains more than anything.

Oh, it’ll absolutely get better on both consoles. It’s pretty cool seeing the advances that developers made over the life of the 360 and the PS3. I’m also curious how they advance relative to each other over the years.

Another interview with the executive producer of Call of Duty talks about that (this same Mark Rubin in Erick Estrada’s IGN article – he must be doing the press rounds). He makes some interesting NDA comments and the amusing analogy as these release launch phase as being like a first date.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-o...about-4173810/

GC: So, just finally, I have to ask: why does the PlayStation 4 version look so much better than the Xbox One? Is the resolution really the only difference?

MR: [laughs] Yep, it’s the only difference. The TVs are different on some of them, but… they both have their different rendering engines but they’re as close as possible. It really comes down to resolution. Xbox is upscaled 720, it’s outputting at 1080p but it’s upscaled from 720. Whereas PlayStation 4 is native 1080p. So that’s really the only graphical difference. But it is enough. Some people here are saying they don’t really notice a difference…

GC: Was that the guy with the white stick?

MR: [laugh] But yeah, the PS4 looks really good.

GC: Is the PC version still better?

MR: There’s actually some features that we’ve added to the PC that are definitively not on any other generation. We worked with Nvidia a lot with this, but we have a different form of anti-aliasing that’s really new and advanced – that isn’t on current or next gen. We have a fur shader on the dog and on the wolves, they actually have a moving fur shader that works really well, for PC. And the third one, which I think is one of the coolest ones, is we’re using Nvidia’s APEX Turbulence tech to have smoke that actually wisps and waves and moves out of the way of objects.

GC: So is that something the new consoles can’t do or you just didn’t have time to implement it?

MR: No, it’s… well, you can do almost anything, almost. Tessellation can’t be done on current gen for the most part, because it’s a DirectX 11 feature, but we could still do it but you’d get a frame rate of 2. So that really becomes the reason we do everything: the reason the Xbox One is 720, the reason the PlayStation 4 is 1080 is we’re trying to make the game look as good as it possible can and making sure we maintain our 60 frames per second. We maintain the latency and the speed and the things that people actually care about. Even if they won’t admit it, the thing that makes Call Of Duty popular is how it feels, because of those priorities.

GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

MR: Can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

[Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

GC: For diplomatic reasons?

MR: Yes.

GC: Okay, that’s fine. I think we can all read between those lines. But that’s absurd, how can they not except any journalist, any reasonable journalist, not to ask that question? It’s what everyone wants to know.

MR: [still feeling very awkward] The key thing is we try to focus people away from that sort of thing and try to focus them on the fact that the game is fun no matter what platform it’s on.

GC: Do you think with the next game you make there will there be such an obvious disparity between the two formats?

MR: Unknown… But over time… If you look at Call Of Duty 2 compared to COD 4 there’s a massive graphic difference, they look very different. So I think we’ll get better, yes.

GC: But will that same proportional gap always be there?

MR: Don’t know. Until we get there I honestly don’t know. To be not diplomatic or anything [laughs] we really don’t know. We’ve done as much as we can in the time we have to get where we’re at.

Will they close the gap? Will they go off in the opposite direction? Who knows? But for this game it is what it is.

GC: Do you think everyone else will have these same problems? All these other cross-generational games that are out at launch?

MR: Well, I think they’ve already said they are haven’t they? Battlefield 4 is 720 on Xbox One and I think 900 on PS4? Titanfall has said they’re 720… So we’re not the first to say we’re 720 on the Xbox One.

GC: No, no. So they’re all obviously hitting the same wall.

MR: Yeah, so you’re reading that correctly in that it’s not specifically us doing something villainous. It’s a thing where all of us have to work at getting better at developing for both consoles. And that’s the fun part. I always use the analogy that the first game on a new console is always like an awkward first date, but once you know a lot more about each other it’s a lot better.

GC: Okay that’s great, thanks very much for your time.

MR: Not at all, that was interesting.

[cDnStealth]

I'll just balance this thread by leaving these here:

Polygon: ”Much has been said about the fact that the PlayStation 4 version of the game runs at a native 1080p, and while that may be true, the game did struggle to maintain a steady frame rate, especially in hectic multiplayer matches. The PS3 version of the game ran into similar problems, whereas the Xbox 360 version maintained a steady 60 frames per second.”

IGN: “On the current-gen versions Ghosts looks nearly identical, though I did encounter occasional framerate issues during the single-player campaign on PS3 and PS4.”

Joystiq: ”A key pillar of the Call of Duty experience has always been rock-solid 60 frames per seconds gameplay. On Xbox 360, Ghosts maintains this mandate. The PlayStation 4 version, however, has noticeable technical issues, sometimes slowing to a crawl, particularly during set-piece moments with multiple effects. One specific moment I was able to replicate multiple times on PS4 was a campaign scene that ran smoothly on Xbox 360 and PS3, while the game chugged On PlayStation 4. These frame rate hitches happen throughout the campaign on PS4 and, in a series known for its Hollywood-inspired bombast, it detracted from the experience.”

GiantBomb Additionally, the PlayStation 4 version has a handful of noticeable dips in its frame rate. This usually seemed to happen when a lot of smoke or other effects were on-screen, but occasionally it occurred in multiplayer for reasons I couldn't even guess at. Judging graphics on a brand-new platform can be tough, since we don't have a lot to compare it with at this point, but I will say that I had hoped that it would look a little better across the board. Whether that says more about my expectations or the quality of the game will have to wait until we see more next-generation games in action.

At the end of the day, using Call of Duty as a "benchmark" is a hilarious joke. It's the same ####ty game, poorly optimized and masquerading as a "next gen" title. The PC port is one of the most pathetic offerings I've ever seen. Constant stuttering and freezing in the options menu, no FOV slider, FPS caps and only a single audio option. The game has high system requirements yet looks much worse than BF4 even on lower settings. I have no idea what the Xbox One will look like down the road but I'd chalk up CoD running at 720p to the ineptitude of IW programmers. I miss the days of CoD 2. That was a quality game and they actually pushed system limits back then.