We better be on the phones with Anaheim...

[Lanny_McDonald]

The secret to the rebuild is to find players after the first round. Your first rounders should step in and play but it is the other rounds that count more. That is what creates depth and why teams like the Oilers are in a perpetual rebuild. It is also why the Flames were talent poor for many years.

I think the Flames rebuild started in 2009 when the team committed to improving its scouting, that paid off in the subsequent drafts and has helped the Flames build some pretty good depth, like the Hawks did before getting Toews and Kane. I think we'll be looking back at the 2010 draft as the that started the turn around. That was the year they drafted Reinhard, Ramage, Arnold and Ferland. They follow that up in 2011 with Baertschi, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Broissoit. 2012 brought Jankowski, Sieloff and Gillies. Last year we added Monahan, Poirier, and Klimchuk. This is likely the core of the future team. Add in some interesting pieces from trades and free agency and the roster begins to come together as the existing team fades. There are a couple of cogs missing in that mix, but the 2014 draft and moving some our vets should address some of those needs.

I agree with those who say we don't need to spend years pulling an Oilers failure plan to build a good team. I think the team knew this and made strides while they still had Iginla and were on the playoff bubble. A couple of years at the bottom is likely all this team is going to feel as far as pain goes. They have been quietly rebuilding and are showing some good signs of turning it around quickly. The trick will be this spring when they add three good college kids to the mix and have another high draft pick. 2014-15 and 2015-16 will be a great time for the Flames fans as their prospects start to mature and step up into the bigs.

[Yanda]

I see I got flamed for saying this is year 1 of a 5 year rebuild. I appoligize to fans that have zero patience but this is year 1.. If you dont like it then cheer for someone else.

We cant half ass the rebuild or there is no point in doing it. I want us to come out of this as the golden gem of the west. Doing a short rebuild will result in being a team like the Av's a playoff contender.... not a playoff winner. We want a cup between 2016-2025? then we better rebuild properly.

[TurnedTheCorner]

You mostly got agreed with. And far from being flamed, some people questioned why a "Rebuild®" has a set, finite length. It's a fair comment - not all rebuilds unfold in the same timeframe or yield the same results. Even successful ones.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Kolbe31

As a fan, what I'm sick of is the attitude over the last 6 months that we need to be bad before we can be good. That we can't make trades to make us better. I'm not suggesting we need to give up top end prospects to 'win now'. I'm not saying make whatever trade is necessary to get a decent goalie. But I think Feaster would be stupid to not explore possibilities. If something make sense, get it done. We win the last two games (against two of the league's best) with better goaltending. I also think we start 5-0, not 3-0-2.

There's no exact science to a rebuild. You continue to assess your team, and make it better where you can. Being a bad team and not improving on purpose is the Edmonton Oiler model of management. Surely we can find a better mentor.

What I am sick of is people not realizing how bad this team is from top down and that people who want the team to be built with top end talent to contend for the Cup, not just hope to make the play-offs somehow means that they want an Oiler style rebuild.

The Flames aren't going to make a deal for a top level goalie so they are left getting bottom level/hope and prayer type goalies. These aren't the type of goalies that help your team win a Stanley Cup so bringing them in is a futile effort as it doesn't help your team become a contender and doesn't help the team improve in the long term.

I have no faith in Ramo or Berra becoming anything close to a top 15 goalie in the league at any point but might as well see what they are before trading for some meh guy to try and get an extra 4-5 wins this season. If they play the whole year and show that they are crap maybe next off-season you take a look at bringing in something new. But this team has shown absolutely nothing this year to indicate that there should be anything other than a long term focus for this team and that this year should be anything other than evaluating the team/players we have and maximizing the development of the young players.

[Yanda]

I used 5 years as an example, im fine waiting longer if need be.

There is no reason to compare our situation to Edmontons, because our management team has seen what happened to the oilers and if they cant avoid falling into the same trap then they should be replacement with a management team that can.

Its easy to get excited about our prospects but lets not forget to take off the rose colored glasses and wait longer before we attempt to cash in.

Also if the rebuild started in 2009/2010 then it was insane asset miss-management to hold on to our veterns. We litterily got nothing for kipper...

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by browna

To those who are saying that Feaster/Hartley aren't/shouldn't be reactionary when it comes to goaltending, in so far as bringing in someone else; the proof is it seems that they are being reactionary with they way they've handed things so far.

What proof? Simply put Mac hasn't been good particularly of late. He got another chance and was terrible. At some point they need to consider options. That isn't being reactionary in any way different from how all teams make roster moves. Guys get chances but at some point you move on

[browna]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What proof? Simply put Mac hasn't been good particularly of late. He got another chance and was terrible. At some point they need to consider options. That isn't being reactionary in any way different from how all teams make roster moves. Guys get chances but at some point you move on

I would say you handle the goaltender that you've trusted (reluctantly or otherwise) to start more games then the other guy, a little bit different if your going to be preaching patience. Or, in this case, the question as to whether the Flames are going to be impatient and go find another goalie outside the organization.

Is/was/has ever MacDonald expected to be any better that he has been as a Flame? He's played this year pretty similar to how he did last year, so Hartley and Feaster know exactly what they have in him.

All off season we've heard all about the guys between the pipes not named Joey MacDonald, yet after all that talk, MacDonald still sticks. Bad game vs. Detroit, and you send the guy who's played the most games down to the farm.

Has Ramo been better in one less start? His SH goal against vs Toronto was terrible and the difference in the game.

Could care less about Joey himself, but if we're talking about the coach and GM having a plan with regards to the goaltending situation, I can't see it. It's one thing if Joey had 3 starts out of 13 and the last one was the stinker vs Detroit, but he's played 7 games out of 13.

And my point out of all this was again, that people thinking that the GM and coach aren't contemplating adding another goalie to the mix because they plan to stick to a plan/"the rebuild", just have to look at the way they've played out the goalie situation to see that they may be assuming incorrectly.

[JiriHrdina]

I think one difference could be the type of bad goals. Ramo got beat on the shorty, bad goal for sure. The goal on Mac the other night was frankly laziness. All he had to do wad be in the right position and it doesn't go in. That lapse in focus is inexcusable and could have been the final straw. Moreover Ramo still may have more upside than he's shown whereas this is who Mac is.

[Caged Great]

Realistically, what the Flames should do, is continue to suck (albeit with good efforts on ice, just not enough talent to win often).

Then once the trade deadline comes, move guys like Stempniak, Stajan, and Cammalleri for picks/prospects. Wait till the offseason, spend 12 million dollars that's been freed up on a decent defenseman or two (legit 3/4 guys like Wideman) and a scorer of the same class as Hudler if there is one available. That will make the team more rounded, and we would be able to determine exactly how good the goalies are with the improved defense (So long Butler/O'Brien). All the while, we still won't quite have enough talent and we should get another good pick next year. That way by the time we exit the end of next season we should be on the rise towards an actual playoff spot in the 2015-2016 season if all goes well. By that time one of the older goalies (Ramo, Berra, Ortio) should have established themselves as an okay starter, while Gillies is beginning to get eased into the backup role in the NHL.

We shouldn't need a goalie then, but if we do, we trade one of our fringe goalies, a mid tier forward and a 2nd round pick to a team with a good young goalie that's blocked like the Leafs did with the Kings.

There just isn't a reason to do it right now today. We need to be patient in order to get enough high end talent from the draft while our supporting decent group of cast players develop (Sieloff/Knight/Hanowski/Agostino/Arnold/Cundari/Reinhart/Horak/Jooris/Colborne/Bouma/etc.)

[$ven27]

We suck, and are going to suck for a few seasons. May as well get comfortable and enjoy watching Sven,Monahan, and our prospects develop rather than moan about how we're above rebuilding.

[J epworth]

The only one of the goalies I would want the Flames getting is Gibson. As much as we are excited about Gillies, Gibson is just as good and has already shown he can play at a higher level. Personally I would rather have Gibson than Gillies, and everyone here is already anointing Gillies as our next starter for 2 years time. Gibson pushes that up a year, as he would be ready next season IMO.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Kolbe31

I just don't understand the "rebuild" attitude. We have a good team that works hard and can win, in my opinion, a lot of games if we get some decent goaltending. Why dismiss the opportunity to get a better goalie for the sake of a "rebuild"? We are good now, let's go.

Because we don't have a good team right now. Defense in particular is a weakness and an elite centre would make a huge difference. Two years straight of drafting in the top 3 would make all the difference. Patience.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Because we don't have a good team right now. Defense in particular is a weakness and an elite centre would make a huge difference. Two years straight of drafting in the top 3 would make all the difference. Patience.

No it wouldn't.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Because we don't have a good team right now. Defense in particular is a weakness and an elite centre would make a huge difference. Two years straight of drafting in the top 3 would make all the difference. Patience.

Exactly. Monahan is a very good player, but if he's the best you have, you're not going to be going anywhere near a cup. You need 4 or 5 players that are at his talent level give or take a bit (various positions)

Look at the Kings or Hawks, for example. The Kings had Kopitar, but they also have Quick, Doughty, Brown, Richards, and Carter. The Hawks have Toews (Better than Monahan) but they also have Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Hossa, plus guys like Byfuglien, Bolland, Ladd in the past that are extremely good secondary pieces.

We need more high end talent and you get that through being patient and enduring games like the past two, where if you had more talent in some areas you'd have won.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

The only one of the goalies I would want the Flames getting is Gibson. As much as we are excited about Gillies, Gibson is just as good and has already shown he can play at a higher level. Personally I would rather have Gibson than Gillies, and everyone here is already anointing Gillies as our next starter for 2 years time. Gibson pushes that up a year, as he would be ready next season IMO.

Anaheim could use a LWer.

Cammalleri (Flames eating half the contract) and Brossoit for Gibson + 2nd rounder

[T@T]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Let's just give kipper a call and ask him to come back... I miss him already. I'm sure he misses us too... It's too cold to be fishing in Finland right now.

He's enjoying the Bow right now...well, not today.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by browna

All off season we've heard all about the guys between the pipes not named Joey MacDonald, yet after all that talk, MacDonald still sticks. Bad game vs. Detroit, and you send the guy who's played the most games down to the farm.

He was awful in the Phoenix game too.

[Enoch Root]

Gibson is not available. Period.

(unless you massively overpay)

Pointless discussion IMO.

[Jake]

Anaheim is probably going to want to move Fasth or Hiller. I don't see why'd they'd trade Andersen or Gibson, unless they receive a great offer.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Gibson is not available. Period.

(unless you massively overpay)

Pointless discussion IMO.

The only thing Anaheim might consider would be Gillies+ for Gibson, but I'd have to question why the Flames would make that move.

Gibson is only 6 months older than Gillies, so although he's technically a year ahead of him, their development going forward will likely be very similar.