[PGT] Red Wings 4 Flames 3

[Lanny'sDaMan]

So the Flames didn't win, but I could not be any happier tonight. What an amazing game for me. Still riding the high from the zamboni ride and having the whole Dome erupt in cheers when I did the Magrattan salute was .. well words cannot do justice to how amazing a feeling that was

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

So the Flames didn't win, but I could not be any happier tonight. What an amazing game for me. Still riding the high from the zamboni ride and having the whole Dome erupt in cheers when I did the Magrattan salute was .. well words cannot do justice to how amazing a feeling that was

Were you the long haired dude in the 1st intermission?

I felt bad for the other guy on the zamboni that started smoking.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Too much is being made of Backlund sitting. This is a good problem to have.

Colborne IS improving, and he is playing more physical. I didn't particularly like getting him on the team, but he is showing more and more.

This isn't a "Burke" thing. Weisbrod was part of the team that drafted him, wasn't he? He was definitely a part of his development, as Colborne went into Weisbrod's domain into the NCAA.

Weisbrod was part of Colborne's drafting/development process.
Burke traded for him.
Feaster went out and signed/traded for a bunch of Calgary natives - Colborne fits that.

He is also 6'5" and has upside, and is still very young. Can we stop with the "Burke is forcing Hartley to play him" nonsense? His waiver exemption was forcing the Flames to play him, but now he is starting to force the Flames in playing him.

I have always been a huge Backlund supporter - and I still am. This kid is fast, dynamic and is so defensively sound it is sick. He drives possession. Now my own opinion won't be popular from anyone, but I remember one particular play Backlund did in Sutter's last year as coach. Backlund was carrying the puck in, and beat a defender. There was literally nobody between him and the goalie. Instead of driving to the net, Backlund chips it into the corner, and you could literally see how stupid he felt chasing after his own chip with ZERO defenders between him, the goalie and the puck. That was a play that Sutter forced into the team (when he continually tried to make them a cycling team, even though they were the smallest team in the NHL).

It is just one example, and it may not hold that much weight. Maybe Backlund just screwed up. It just seemed like it was a 'forced' play instead of allowing players to be creative. Brent really drilled into Backlund the need to be defensively responsible, and that has taken some effect on Backlund.

Now, dressing him with McGrattan isn't going to solve it, but it is tough to make a case for whom he displaces. Everyone has to take a few turns sitting on the bench or playing on the 4th line. That is a good problem to have. Everyone and their dog (except for a couple of posters on this site) knows that Backlund has been doing fairly well.

Still, do you just bench Glencross and Stajan? Do you start benching the vets that you need to unload at some point between now and the deadline? Rotate the rookies in, keep them hungry, keep them learning, but you don't reduce trade assets. Just my opinion.

As for goaltending - I think we all know what MacDonald is by now - this is the first time I saw him lose a game for the Flames, and never saw him win a game. That is two games in a row that the goalies have lost the game for the team.

However, Ramo still has upside. Still adjusting. People will argue that he is what he is, pointing at other goalies in different situations (often with a better defence in front of them!), but everyone progresses at a different rate. I still stand behind the statement that we won't really 'know' one way or the other until the half-way point in the season. At that time, I expect Berra to start getting looks regardless as to how poor or great Ramo is. Flames need to figure out what they have, and that has time. At the end of the season, I expect Ortio to have a couple of looks.

Flames played well tonight. Goaltending lost them the game (again), but they acquitted themselves well against a team that is know for puck possession and putting pressure on the puck carriers - exactly the style I think the Flames play now. They looked faster and dominant for long stretches, and have good fight to get back in the game twice. Nothing wrong with a game like this for the first year of the rebuild.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You said that Backlund's upside is 50 points on a bad team?

So why was he on a 41 point pace last season as a 23 year old given limited powerplay time, the toughest zone starts on the team, all while playing solid defensively?

Backlund may not be likely that he becomes a true number 2 centreman, but he's certainly better than where he's playing at and could be a very good 3rd liner as well.

Because playing with Iginla and Tanguay boosted those point totals and on pace points are a pretty dangerous thing to use as a couple of good/bad games can skew it.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

Because playing with Iginla and Tanguay boosted those point totals and on pace points are a pretty dangerous thing to use as a couple of good/bad games can skew it.

Backlund never consistently played with Iginla and Tanguay.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I hated Brent Sutter for the team we had from 2010-2012, but finishing 25th last year might say otherwise.

I actually think that perhaps Hartley is more adept for getting a win at the NHL level, but he's a detriment to a rebuilding team that needs to develop its young talent if it ever wants to find success.

It is funny how two people watching the same game have such different views.

Sutter (in my eyes) forced Backlund into 'too much' of a defensive player, and limited his offensive side. Hartley is trying to warm that up. Both are important in the game. Hartley is in no way impeding Backlund's progress - Colborne IS getting better and better, and is starting to impose himself out there. You can bet that Backlund moves up within the next 2 or 3 games, and someone else moves down. Just part of the process.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

lol you're wrong. Backlund had what? 4 points in his first 6 or 7 games?

Backlund had three points in his first three games. Then his offensive production turned dry as a desert.

Then Colborne's ice time started to skyrocket for some unknown reason. You can go look at the "so, what do you think of Joe Colborne so far" thread, and it was almost unanimous that he should/would be playing in the AHL if he wasn't subject to waivers.

As this thread has shown, Flames fans are panicky, biased and play favourites. The complaint here is entirely because Backlund is "our guy" and Colborne is not.

And the reasons for Colborne's increasing ice time aren't all that mysterous. Like Backlund, he isn't generating much offence. But unlike Backlund, he is noticeable in the corners, in front of the net, on the backcheck, etc.

Then suddenly you feel he's playing better and developing better than Backlund once he receives these minutes? Gee, what a coincidence.

Obviously not a coincidence. Colborne moved up the depth chart. Meritocracy.

Maybe if Backlund started in the offensive zone 25% more than he currently is (the spread between him and Colborne is almost Sedin/Malholtra-like), was given more powerplay time, and more ES time, you'd actually appreciate what he brings on a player instead of forgetting about it.

I appreciate what Backlund can do. Don't be so arrogant as to think that I have "forgotten" what Backlund is capable of because I disagree with you. I want Backlund to do better. I want him to grab a more offensive and more consistent role. But he's got to earn it. Plain and simple.

[Ashasx]

Fun fact: Backlund is 10 months and 13 days older than Colborne.

I guess he's a greybeard in comparison.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Obviously not a coincidence. Colborne moved up the depth chart. Meritocracy.

We're never going to find agreement on this fundamental point. I don't know what else today.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Were you the long haired dude in the 1st intermission?

I felt bad for the other guy on the zamboni that started smoking.

Yup that was me, hairbag galore. Don't feel too bad, that guy got free tickets to the next home game and he gets the first intermission zamboni rode on that game too. Everyone wins.

[theinfinitejar]

I don't understand why you wouldn't throw Backlund and Baertschi back out on the PP right now, it's not like the current group is setting the world on fire.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Yup that was me, hairbag galore. Don't feel too bad, that guy got free tickets to the next home game and he gets the first intermission zamboni rode on that game too. Everyone wins.

Right on. You were putting on a good show.

Glad to hear they took care of the other guy too.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

I don't understand why you wouldn't throw Backlund and Baertschi back out on the PP right now, it's not like the current group is setting the world on fire.

Clearly the current units going 0 for their last 19 have earned the opportunity.

Meritocracy, after all.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Clearly the current units going 0 for their last 19 have earned the opportunity.

Meritocracy, after all.

Now you're just pouting.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Backlund never consistently played with Iginla and Tanguay.

Nope but they help him get those 16 points we are using to project him into a 41 point player .

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Backlund had three points in his first three games. Then his offensive production turned dry as a desert.

As opposed to Colborne's offense, which flows like Niagara.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Now you're just pouting.

Are these your responses when certain coaching decisions can't be justified?

[HighLifeMan]

If anybody is truly deserving of seeing some PP time it is Matt Stajan.
I am not sure what the insistence is with throwing out the same two groups over and over when they continuously fail to produce. Sometimes changes are needed to spark an offense.

Heck, you would think our best player in the faceoff circle and a player with 4 points in five games would be given an opportunity to play in those situations..

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Fun fact: Backlund is 10 months and 13 days older than Colborne.

I guess he's a greybeard in comparison.

He is, he's been on the team a lot longer and doesn't have as much to adjust to. Even as a Backs disliker, this is good for him, last year we signed/traded for 20 centres that somehow turned into not being centremen. Backs wasn't challenged (except as usual by injury). It's great he's got to earn time now.

[The Original FFIV]

all this b.s. about Backlund vs. Colborne, Hartley being the wrong coach.

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it's the goaltending, stupid.

Effort and opportunities are there, the soft goals have cost this team points the past two games.

Time for the 3 goalie system, per my thread in the Berra thread.