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Table 5 · 10-30-2013, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I totally agree with this, if Backlund is struggling is probably isn't from lack of trying. Though I don't see this is a reason to go panicky and worry about going back into "win" mode.

Who's panicking? I just said my thoughts, I'm not running for the hills or anything. I just don't see this management team being as patient as they say they will be with the young kids. A few too many decisions being made for the now.

Ashasx · 10-30-2013, 11:16 PM

At least the Canucks lost.

Suck it, Canucks.

badradio · 10-30-2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

This is going to be a pretty painful rebuild if the only ones ever "held accountable" are the kids.

This is my problem with Hartley... He didn't handle Cervenka right either, Cervenka had points every time he was on the ice (which was hardly ever) The guy never had a chance from the beginning, and I can see Sven and Backlund as the new whipping boys. Also, I could see Gaudreau either being traded, never making the team, or have limited ice time, doesn't seem like a Hartley type player. This "have to be better in all three zones" is complete BS. I agree that the vets should be held to the same standards, no one is above the team, I don't care what their salary is.

TurnedTheCorner · 10-30-2013, 11:17 PM

I'm no fan of Jackman either - but the coach explained that he had a conversation with the player, and Backlund sounded like he said the right things and knows he can do more. That's a good thing.

The coach wanted more physical play in the lineup, and adjusted accordingly.

Backlund: 11 GP, ~18:00 ATOI, 11 hits
Jackman: 5 GP, ~4:30 ATOI, 9 hits

Jackman plays more physically than Backlund, that's what the coach wanted for this one game. Pretty straightforward, and one game is pretty insignificant in terms of the big picture of player development and rebuilding.

Dion · 10-30-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Don't want to get into a long discission, but I don't see the hockey IQ or motor from Colborne. Just too passive. I think he maxes out as a 3rd line C.

Backlund is grittier than Colborne.

I see Colborne using his size to go to the net for rebounds and scoring chances. He also screens the goalie when he has a chance. Plus I like his play along the boards.

He may lack a little grit but I see a player that wants to be here and learn. Time will tell but i'm guessing that he realises that the Flames could be his last chance at regular employment at the NHL level.

nik- · 10-30-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I'm no fan of Jackman either - but the coach explained that he had a conversation with the player, and Backlund sounded like he said the right things and knows he can do more. That's a good thing.

The coach wanted more physical play in the lineup, and adjusted accordingly.

Backlund: 11 GP, ~18:00 ATOI, 11 hits
Jackman: 5 GP, ~4:30 ATOI, 9 hits

Jackman plays more physically than Backlund, that's what the coach wanted for this one game. Pretty straightforward, and one game is pretty insignificant in terms of the big picture of player development and rebuilding.

I think the problem is the decision to put a premium on a few more hits while swallowing the rest of his game, which is tragic at this point. The decision making at its core is questionable, not that we're worried Backlund's feelings are hurt.

ComixZone · 10-30-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm starting to get the feeling the Flames are trying to "Win" again, as opposed to putting emphasis on focusing and developing the next generation. I think all the early winning got them thinking that we're close to being good again. I really wouldn't be that surprised to see them trade a young guy for a veteran.

They'll do this until they fall out of the pack...

...which will probably only be another month or two.

TurnedTheCorner · 10-30-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badradio

Also, I could see Gaudreau either being traded, never making the team, or have limited ice time, doesn't seem like a Hartley type player.

Post game hand wringing about Gaudreau! Take a drink!

Frank MetaMusil · 10-30-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badradio

This is my problem with Hartley... He didn't handle Cervenka right either, Cervenka had points every time he was on the ice (which was hardly ever) The guy never had a chance from the beginning, and I can see Sven and Backlund as the new whipping boys. Also, I could see Gaudreau either being traded, never making the team, or have limited ice time, doesn't seem like a Hartley type player. This "have to be better in all three zones" is complete BS. I agree that the vets should be held to the same standards, no one is above the team, I don't care what their salary is.

Meh, Cervenka is no Phaneuf. Hartley should only be expected to weather the storm for this rebuild. Funny thing is, the majority of your post is exactly what people would give the Flames previous coach even more rope for.....

Calgary lost 9 games in a row before they traded Phaneuf for junk. Time for people to grow or find patience somewhere. At least players coached by Hartley actually have value in trades.

nik- · 10-30-2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They'll do this until they fall out of the pack...

...which will probably only be another month or two.

Remember that 4 points out at November 1st anecdote Freidman talked about?

... well

We are out of the pack.

Dion · 10-30-2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I'm no fan of Jackman either - but the coach explained that he had a conversation with the player, and Backlund sounded like he said the right things and knows he can do more. That's a good thing.

The coach wanted more physical play in the lineup, and adjusted accordingly.

Backlund: 11 GP, ~18:00 ATOI, 11 hits
Jackman: 5 GP, ~4:30 ATOI, 9 hits

Jackman plays more physically than Backlund, that's what the coach wanted for this one game. Pretty straightforward, and one game is pretty insignificant in terms of the big picture of player development and rebuilding.

Then why insert a player like Jackman in the lineup and basicly not use him. Either you have confidence in what he can do or you don't.

Sgrath · 10-30-2013, 11:25 PM

Re: benching Backs etc
One thing we've complained about for a while is poor asset management. Well we know some of our assets quite well and some not very well. Seems like a lot of what is happening is exactly that process of getting others to know your assets.

This year is going to be a bottom 5-8 finish regardless of the effort these guys put in, so having well known assets might move us up / garner more 1st rounders.

Dion · 10-30-2013, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Who's panicking? I just said my thoughts, I'm not running for the hills or anything. I just don't see this management team being as patient as they say they will be with the young kids. A few too many decisions being made for the now.

Backlund watching a game form the press box won't help his game?

Table 5 · 10-30-2013, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

Jackman plays more physically than Backlund, that's what the coach wanted for this one game. Pretty straightforward, and one game is pretty insignificant in terms of the big picture of player development and rebuilding.

I just think every decision should be for the betterment of the next generation. 95% of what Backlund offers is better than what Jackman gives you...and he's a guy who could be a key player in the turn around. Jackman will not even be a guy who will be here next year.

I'm for holding the young kids accountable...but only if it applies to everyone else. The younger kids should be given more of a leash, and be allowed to make a few more mistakes. Yet they always seem to be the ones paying the price for the smallest of reasons.

And sitting out one game might not be that big of a deal...but no matter what anybody says, that's a knock against you. It's embarrassing as a professional. Is getting a couple of hits a game from a guy who won't make a difference, playing against a team who you almost never see, really worth it?

Table 5 · 10-30-2013, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

Backlund watching a game form the press box won't help his game?

What does Backlund need to work on that he can learn in the press-box? He's been one of our most consistent players all season. He's not going to turn into a sniper. He does what he does, and he needs to do more of it.

djsFlames · 10-30-2013, 11:33 PM

We've played less games than most teams. If we beat Detroit we'll be right back in the mix. Unfortunately even if we somehow end up above 500 our division is so bloody stacked we'd still probably be second last.

TurnedTheCorner · 10-30-2013, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

I just think every decision should be for the betterment of the next generation. 95% of what Backlund offers is better than what Jackman gives you...and he's a guy who could be a key player in the turn around. Jackman will not even be a guy who will be here next year.

I'm for holding the young kids accountable...but only if it applies to everyone else. The younger kids should be given more of a leash, and be allowed to make a few more mistakes. Yet they always seem to be the ones paying the price for the smallest of reasons.

And sitting out one game might not be that big of a deal...but no matter what anybody says, that's a knock against you. It's embarrassing as a professional. Is getting a couple of hits a game from a guy who won't make a difference, playing against a team who you almost never see, really worth it?

Perhaps scratching Backlund is coming from the position that it will be to his betterment and the betterment of the team, as well as the desire for more physical play from the roster for one game. Can't it be both?

I agree that I would like to see some vets held accountable and not given such a long leash. I'm waiting to see how that plays out over the course of the season, not living and dying by it game by game.

Street Pharmacist · 10-30-2013, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

Backlund watching a game form the press box won't help his game?

I don't see how. He's seen the game at an intimate level in the NHL for some time now.

Dion · 10-30-2013, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't see how. He's seen the game at an intimate level in the NHL for some time now.

Watching it from above as opposed to on the ice surface are 2 different ways of viewing the game. You see things differently which is the whole point of the exercise. A player can learn things he might not see at the ice level.

Dion · 10-30-2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

What does Backlund need to work on that he can learn in the press-box? He's been one of our most consistent players all season. He's not going to turn into a sniper. He does what he does, and he needs to do more of it.

That's like saying a player can't improve his game anymore. If you asked Backs and he was honest he'd say there are parts of his game he wants to improve on.