2013/14 General Heat Discussion Thread

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Clint has some incredible photos, I am loving some of his shots this year.

Technically Knight, Niemisz and Horak is the 4th line.

But then again they roll 4 lines. What separates 1st lines from 4th liners is special teams time.

I can say for sure that whatever line Byron is on is the de facto #1 line. They automatically get the most time. Lines 2-4 get relatively even time.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I can say for sure that whatever line Byron is on is the de facto #1 line. They automatically get the most time. Lines 2-4 get relatively even time.

It seems pretty even too me, I think the reason it feels like they get so much more time is that Byron is the only players that gets top PP and PK time.

It bothered me when Ward had Byron centering Olson and Bancks though, play Byron with some offensive talent when he is doing this well.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I can say for sure that whatever line Byron is on is the de facto #1 line. They automatically get the most time. Lines 2-4 get relatively even time.

PMM what are the odds of Byron being called up before Knight, Reinhart, or Grandlund?

[Lanny_McDonald]

What are the odds that Ward gets sacked? He's great fro trying to win games, but horrible for developing players into NHL talent. How can you justify having Byron as your top center when his NHL dream is as good as dead?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by New Era

What are the odds that Ward gets sacked? He's great fro trying to win games, but horrible for developing players into NHL talent. How can you justify having Byron as your top center when his NHL dream is as good as dead?

I have no complaints with how Ward has developed guys like Brodie, Breen, Horak, Bouma, Baertschi etc.

Who in your opinion has he ruined? I don't think the prospects that didn't make it can be blamed on him or his system. There is a high chance that guys like Wahl, Irving, Howse, Nemisz would have busted in any development system

If our good prospects can't fairly earn their playing time on an decent to average AHL team are they really good prospects for the NHL?

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by New Era

What are the odds that Ward gets sacked? He's great fro trying to win games, but horrible for developing players into NHL talent. How can you justify having Byron as your top center when his NHL dream is as good as dead?

a winning atmosphere also helps develop.... a large number of players on the team are in their first year of pro hockey. let them earn the ice time

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by New Era

What are the odds that Ward gets sacked? He's great fro trying to win games, but horrible for developing players into NHL talent. How can you justify having Byron as your top center when his NHL dream is as good as dead?

I say little to none right now. The team is winning games, they are playing well and they are still listening to him and taking direction. I think his firing would come when the team stops responding or if he starts going away from the game that Hartley and Feaster want him teaching. At the Flames Fest today, Burke said that the biggest thing is Ward teaches the same system that Hartley is so that when they call a kid up, they are familiar with it.

As Eye_Overstand alluded to, most of these guys are first year pro or first year playing together. This is not a team with alot of carryover from last year so these boys still have to get to know each other and create some team chemistry. It can take time. Plus, factor in players leaving and coming back at anytime and it does make it a little tough then any other level of hockey to get a group game going.

Byron is a good AHL player. Some guys, this is the best they do. If Byron is the best centre on the ice, why shouldn't he have the top spot? Because he won't make the NHL? That's an unhealthy atmosphere to create in the dressing room and almost like the country club crap that was going on in the Flames room. You can't take things away from him because you want say Horak or Knight to be top line because hey, they are going to be NHL players. If he earns top spot, I'm okay with him having it over guys who are NHL caliber.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by neo45

I have no complaints with how Ward has developed guys like Brodie, Breen, Horak, Bouma, Baertschi etc.

Who in your opinion has he ruined? I don't think the prospects that didn't make it can be blamed on him or his system. There is a high chance that guys like Wahl, Irving, Howse, Nemisz would have busted in any development system

If our good prospects can't fairly earn their playing time on an decent to average AHL team are they really good prospects for the NHL?

Brodie was more Playfair then anyone. Baertschi didn't spend a lot of time under Ward. Breen and Horak still aren't NHL caliber players. Ward's feather in the cap players were projects like Ferland and Howse. Howse is retired and Ferland isn't doing all that well this season. The only Ward graduate that is doing well is Bouma. And he is a grinder.

Meanwhile players like Irving, Nemisz, and Horak seem to be burning out under him. This season guys like Cundari, Granlund, Ferland, Ramage, Wotherpoon, etc aren't doing all that well. Some of the grinder type players like Hanowski, Knight, and Reinhart are doing well.

I am not anti-Ward. But I think he developed a great reputation with this board last season that isn't backed up by the successful development of players. Especially skill players. He seems to favor the grinders. He seems to favor veterans. He seems to prioritize winning over development at times.

[Alberta_Beef]

lol @ Hanowski being a grinder type. It really shows you don't watch the team play.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I'm going to stay out of the whole Ward discussion haha. All I'll say is he's a good person, a great coach at getting the most out of a little (in terms of talent) and the players respect the hell out of him and anything that comes out his mouth.

Originally Posted by kyuss275

PMM what are the odds of Byron being called up before Knight, Reinhart, or Grandlund?

I'd say nil. Maybe Granlund. There's no way Byron gets called up ahead of Knight or Reinhart even though Byron's been doing wonderfully this season.

Granlund's here for a while. So I could see Byron getting a call-up ahead of him.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

lol @ Hanowski being a grinder type. It really shows you don't watch the team play.

I have watched both Hanowski and the Heat. Not routinely. But some.

Grinder is probably the wrong word. For Knight, Hanowski, and even Reinhart. Call them power forwards if you prefer.

But the point stands. There hasn't been a Ward graduate other then Bouma who has done well in the NHL. And every season the players with the highest expectations don't do all that well.

That might just be the hand Ward was dealt. Like I said, I am not anti-Ward. But I think it is a fair to question the lack of successful development under Ward, especially for certain player types. I also think it is fair to ask if the right priority has been put in development over winning.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Also check out this week's Heat Report:

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|CGY|home

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I have watched both Hanowski and the Heat. Not routinely. But some.

Grinder is probably the wrong word. For Knight, Hanowski, and even Reinhart. Call them power forwards if you prefer.

But the point stands. There hasn't been a Ward graduate other then Bouma who has done well in the NHL. And every season the players with the highest expectations don't do all that well.

That might just be the hand Ward was dealt. Like I said, I am not anti-Ward. But I think it is a fair to question the lack of successful development under Ward, especially for certain player types. I also think it is fair to ask if the right priority has been put in development over winning.

I don't know about anyone else, but I always throw Brodie under the "Ward's Graduate" heading. Playfair had a hand in his development in the first year a bit, but I always refer back to one moment:

Brodie would eff up on a shift and Playfair would scream and yell at him giving him little direction or reason as to why. Then Ward would come over and actually explain what went wrong on Brodie's shift and tell him how to fix it on the white board.

If we still had Playfair, there's no guarantee Brodie would be in the NHL.

[Vulcan]

I remember Brodie giving Playfair credit for being hard on him as it changed his game.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

And it's official:

Abbotsford Heat ‏@abbotsfordheat 13m
#AHLHeat G Laurent Brossoit has been assigned to the @AlaskaAces and G Joni Ortio has been recalled. Read More ~ http://ow.ly/qg9ij

[Freeway]

Guys that require waivers:
D: Cundari, Smith
F: Byron, B.Jones, Nemisz, Street

Guys that don't:
G: Berra, Brossoit, Ortio
D: Billins, Ramage, Sieloff, Wotherspoon
F: Elson, Ferland, Granlund, Hanowski, Horak, Jooris, Knight, Reinhart

[edslunch]

What's with Sieloff, is he injured?

[flamesrule14]

Originally Posted by edslunch

What's with Sieloff, is he injured?

Last I have read is he is back in Calgary with a staph infection from a previous injury.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Brodie was more Playfair then anyone. Baertschi didn't spend a lot of time under Ward. Breen and Horak still aren't NHL caliber players. Ward's feather in the cap players were projects like Ferland and Howse. Howse is retired and Ferland isn't doing all that well this season. The only Ward graduate that is doing well is Bouma. And he is a grinder.

Meanwhile players like Irving, Nemisz, and Horak seem to be burning out under him. This season guys like Cundari, Granlund, Ferland, Ramage, Wotherpoon, etc aren't doing all that well. Some of the grinder type players like Hanowski, Knight, and Reinhart are doing well.

I am not anti-Ward. But I think he developed a great reputation with this board last season that isn't backed up by the successful development of players. Especially skill players. He seems to favor the grinders. He seems to favor veterans. He seems to prioritize winning over development at times.

You can't include guys like Ferland, Granlund, Ramage and Wotherspoon who are literally a handful of games into pro NA hockey. Moreover, I thought Ramage WAS doing well.

I think you would find that most AHL teams have veterans carrying some of the mail - in fact the Flames are the youngest team in the league are they not?

For me - this is just a case where people are looking to assign blame and Ward is the obvious target. But it baffles me that someone can blame Ward for guys like Wahl and Howse busting out considering where they are now in their careers and the clear indications that they simply aren't willing to do what is required to be a pro.

Ultimately its on the player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Brodie was more Playfair then anyone. Baertschi didn't spend a lot of time under Ward...

I think you are cherry-picking players to suit your argument. The fact of the matter is that Brodie did not become a full-time NHLer until after a final half-season in which he toiled in the AHL under the tutelage of Ward. The only AHL coach that Sven Baertschi has ever played for was Troy Ward, and the difference between how he played prior to his AHL assignment compared to how he looked when he was recalled was demonstrable. You cannot simply choose not to give Ward some credit for this because Baertschi did not play a full season in Abbotsford. The fact of the matter is that he was arguably better for it.