This is a situation where the reputation of the player who went down in Kesler is distracting from a potentially dangerous play and everyone's letting Nielsen off the hook.
It wasn't dangerous at all. It was just Kesler being a tool.
See I'm watching that gif over and over and Nielsen clearly hit him in the head. He lifted up his elbow when doing it, you can't see if the elbow made contact but something did. Now, he didn't hit him in the head very hard, and Kesler clearly embellishes it to draw the penalty (puts hand on face) but it's not a dive. Nielsen committed a penalty. In this case it was a head shot.
Exhibit 13,422 as to why I hate supplemental discipline being so concerned with suspending to the injury. It wouldn't have required much to go differently for that to end up causing a concussion. This is a situation where the reputation of the player who went down in Kesler is distracting from a potentially dangerous play and everyone's letting Nielsen off the hook.
EDIT: Here's a youtube clip with a couple of angles and I see nothing that would change my mind on the above - with the exception that it wasn't an elbow. It's his shoulder that makes contact.
I watch that clip over and over again and have no idea what you are seeing...that is a blatant dive.
It wasn't dangerous at all. It was just Kesler being a tool.
Every time a guy takes a shoulder in the chin, it's a potentially dangerous play. Coming from behind arguably more so. The fact that the contact ended up being pretty wimpy and not causing any significant damage isn't terribly important to me. One of the guys involved moves slightly differently and it's a concussion. Should Kesler be penalized for embellishment? Sure. But no one ever missed a game because someone took a high stick and threw his head back and flopped on the ice. This well could have. Re-do this same sequence ten times and you'll probably see two or three head injuries. It's a risky situation.
I know people just want to think the worst about the Canucks, and they're right because he did flop on the ice afterwards. But letting Nielsen off the hook because of a pre-existing narrative like "Kesler's a diving flopper" is lazy and irresponsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinIggyWithIt
I watch that clip over and over again and have no idea what you are seeing...that is a blatant dive.
:40 through :59. Three angles that show it, especially the last one. It's not very hard, but he pretty clearly hits him in the head with his shoulder.
Last edited by 19Yzerman19; 10-24-2013 at 04:10 PM.
:40 through :59. Three angles that show it, especially the last one. It's not very hard, but he pretty clearly hits him in the head with his shoulder.
I don't know - I've watched it quite a few times, and as far as I can see, the second angle is the best. Looks shoulder to shoulder - no head involved.
In angles 1 and 3, you can't see the point of contact as Neilsen is in the way.
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I accepted that a couple years ago that they dive I can see it,But you guys seem to believe that when the game starts the only way they got out there is by diving on the ice.
Every time a guy takes a shoulder in the chin, it's a potentially dangerous play. Coming from behind arguably more so. The fact that the contact ended up being pretty wimpy and not causing any significant damage isn't terribly important to me. One of the guys involved moves slightly differently and it's a concussion. Should Kesler be penalized for embellishment? Sure. But no one ever missed a game because someone took a high stick and threw his head back and flopped on the ice. This well could have. Re-do this same sequence ten times and you'll probably see two or three head injuries. It's a risky situation.
I know people just want to think the worst about the Canucks, and they're right because he did flop on the ice afterwards. But letting Nielsen off the hook because of a pre-existing narrative like "Kesler's a diving flopper" is lazy and irresponsible.
:40 through :59. Three angles that show it, especially the last one. It's not very hard, but he pretty clearly hits him in the head with his shoulder.
Look at the angle that he approaches him at, as well as the severity of the contact - it isn't even a hit, it's more of a body-positioning brush.
There is NOTHING here. If Kesler doesn't flop, he probably doesn't even get credited with a hit.
:40 through :59. Three angles that show it, especially the last one. It's not very hard, but he pretty clearly hits him in the head with his shoulder.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call those angles clear by any means. As Lord Carnage mentioned, Nielsen is in the way in at least two of those angles, so you can't really see the point of contact. In my opinion, the best angle is the one that shows it from the side and to me it looks like a well orchestrated dive on Kesler's part.
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Every time a guy takes a shoulder in the chin, it's a potentially dangerous play. Coming from behind arguably more so. The fact that the contact ended up being pretty wimpy and not causing any significant damage isn't terribly important to me. One of the guys involved moves slightly differently and it's a concussion. Should Kesler be penalized for embellishment? Sure. But no one ever missed a game because someone took a high stick and threw his head back and flopped on the ice. This well could have. Re-do this same sequence ten times and you'll probably see two or three head injuries. It's a risky situation.
I know people just want to think the worst about the Canucks, and they're right because he did flop on the ice afterwards. But letting Nielsen off the hook because of a pre-existing narrative like "Kesler's a diving flopper" is lazy and irresponsible.
:40 through :59. Three angles that show it, especially the last one. It's not very hard, but he pretty clearly hits him in the head with his shoulder.
If you look at the hit at 49 second mark it looks like Kesler acts out the whole play. It looks fake. I don't think he was hit at all it looks like he kind of plants his face on the back of Nielson's shoulder. Nielson was going for the puck and Kelser saw the opportunity to take "another dive".
I wouldn't call those angles clear by any means. As Lord Carnage mentioned, Nielsen is in the way in at least two of those angles, so you can't really see the point of contact. In my opinion, the best angle is the one that shows it from the side and to me it looks like a well orchestrated dive on Kesler's part.
Which is odd, because I can't see much of anything from the side, so I wouldn't prefer that angle. Meanwhile, on the angle starting at :54, it looks pretty obvious to me that he clips him in the head. What I see on that play is light clip to the head, Kesler goes off-balance, and decides to fall down and hold his face for a few seconds in the hopes of getting a call. Which is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from Kesler, but it's still a hit to the head and still a dangerous play if things go differently if someone's skating a bit faster or at a slightly different angle.
But anyway, that's what I see. My problem isn't so much with calling Kesler out for going down like... well, like Kesler, it's for giving players a free pass on these plays because there were no stretchers as a result. This happens a lot and it's really frustrating beause no one seems to care unless someone's legitimately hurt.
Which is odd, because I can't see much of anything from the side, so I wouldn't prefer that angle. Meanwhile, on the angle starting at :54, it looks pretty obvious to me that he clips him in the head. What I see on that play is light clip to the head, Kesler goes off-balance, and decides to fall down and hold his face for a few seconds in the hopes of getting a call. Which is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from Kesler, but it's still a hit to the head and still a dangerous play if things go differently if someone's skating a bit faster or at a slightly different angle.
But anyway, that's what I see. My problem isn't so much with calling Kesler out for going down like... well, like Kesler, it's for giving players a free pass on these plays because there were no stretchers as a result. This happens a lot and it's really frustrating beause no one seems to care unless someone's legitimately hurt.
Look at the play from the 47 to 50 second mark, he takes a "full" dive.
Which is odd, because I can't see much of anything from the side, so I wouldn't prefer that angle. Meanwhile, on the angle starting at :54, it looks pretty obvious to me that he clips him in the head. What I see on that play is light clip to the head, Kesler goes off-balance, and decides to fall down and hold his face for a few seconds in the hopes of getting a call. Which is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from Kesler, but it's still a hit to the head and still a dangerous play if things go differently if someone's skating a bit faster or at a slightly different angle.
But anyway, that's what I see. My problem isn't so much with calling Kesler out for going down like... well, like Kesler, it's for giving players a free pass on these plays because there were no stretchers as a result. This happens a lot and it's really frustrating beause no one seems to care unless someone's legitimately hurt.
I completely agree with the bold, I just don't see it here.
Which is odd, because I can't see much of anything from the side, so I wouldn't prefer that angle. Meanwhile, on the angle starting at :54, it looks pretty obvious to me that he clips him in the head. What I see on that play is light clip to the head, Kesler goes off-balance, and decides to fall down and hold his face for a few seconds in the hopes of getting a call. Which is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from Kesler, but it's still a hit to the head and still a dangerous play if things go differently if someone's skating a bit faster or at a slightly different angle.
But anyway, that's what I see. My problem isn't so much with calling Kesler out for going down like... well, like Kesler, it's for giving players a free pass on these plays because there were no stretchers as a result. This happens a lot and it's really frustrating beause no one seems to care unless someone's legitimately hurt.
Take another look at the play, Nielson could have leaned in and nailed Kesler but instead he cuts him off and turns his back to Kesler to pursue the puck. This is a lot different than some plays where guys come in at full speed and lean into a players head. What I see here is after Nielson cuts him off Kesler swings himself around making it look like a shoulder to head the only problem is he does it a bit late and comes off the back of Neilson's shoulder. This reminds me of that gif where "I think its was Kesler" flip flops on the ice near the blue line after the player had already skated by him. I think we just need to look at the reputation to see this is another well embellished dive.
Well, he didn't say anything about biting or hair pulling, so never fear - the Canucks legacy shall live on.
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I would love to see Torts reaction to something as cowardly as that, which the Canucks players repeatedly do all the time. He hasn't shied away from calling out, or showing disdain for his own players in the past. I would love to see him be asked "John, how do you feel about Alex Burrows biting, kneeing in the groin, and pulling the hair of his opponent in that fight in the 2nd period?"
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