Sean FRICKIN Monahan

[sa226]

I think they are doing a fantastic job of monitoring his progress. Last night would have been another eye opener for him. They played a bigger and better team. The Monahan line was even line matched to neutralize their effectiveness.

I think the next game will be more telling. Does he apply what he learned from this game? Or does he go on to show that maybe he isn't quite ready.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by strombad

Only by your flawed logic was I denigrating Toews.

We aren't comparing Monahan to every other Flames player, you compared him to Toews, and I showed you why comparing him to Toews as a shot against Monahan isn't warranted. You, of course, left out my very correct points about their hitting and blocked shots not being far off, and considering this is only game 6, as I said before, Monahan has plenty of time to match Toews' numbers, they aren't that lofty.

Either way, Monahan was already one of the best face off guys in the OHL, he was automatic, sending him down isn't going to improve his face off skills when he's already dominated the dot. As for his physical play? The was one of the knocks against him pre-draft. It could stand to be improved, but comparing him to Toews in that sense is ridiculous, seeing as Toews barely managed higher 'physical' stats on average in his first full season than Monahan has over 6 games. Monahan hasn't looked shy, he goes to the tough areas, but he doesn't hit. Do you learn to play more physical in the NHL by playing in the OHL? I'd be mighty surprised were that true. I could see value if he was college or AHL bound, but playing against weaker opponents isn't going to help his physical game.

It stands to reason that your gripes are not warranted against a player who has only played in 6 career NHL games.

he goes into rough areas but he doesn't hit? He negotiates or reaches in to attempt to get the puck?

Toews did not hit much in his first year in the league. He still does not hit much considering the role he plays. He did have a +40 Takeaway/giveaway last year and in his rookie year had 8 giveaways and 29 take aways in 64 games. He only had 27 hits in 64 games.... in 60 games Monahan should have 10 hits.

Monahan is currently at the Cervenka level of toughness... not at all close to the rookie Toews level.


You can see the difference in that Toews basically had 3 times as many hits in his rookie season as Monahan would have if he kept up his current rate?? Or in your world of approximations do you value a 10-11 goal scorer the same as a 27 goal scorer.


In Toews first playoff year his second NHL season he had 19 hits in 17 games.

Right now there is no way I can see Monahan stepping it up physically when he goes up against the other teams best centres in important games.

I think you can agree that is the role that the flames are counting on him to take over when they are a serious playoff team. He needs to grow.

I am really worried that if he plays 60 games as a fringe player that it will be more difficult for him to grow out of it.

It will get worse for him as the NHL season goes along. Already because of his scoring success and talent the other teams coaches are making game plans that involve physical domination of Monahan.

Right now Monahan (along with Baertschi and Hudler) have 0 seconds of penalty killing time.. Not fast enough or smart enough?

It stands to reason that your gripes are not warranted against a player who has only played in 6 career NHL games.

The problem is that if he plays another 4 NHL games then he likely will be in the NHL for the whole year.

He has the talent and the hockey smarts for the NHL but he has a 19 year olds body. The same as Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakapov, throw in Burmistrov , another 19 year old NHLer.

I do not think that there are more than a handful of people that would argue that their optimal development plan was to play in the NHL as 19 year olds?

[Table 5]

I don't think either up or down will be a tragedy or genius decision, but I've been leaning towards sending him down from the start, and I still lean that way. I just don't think we have to rush things...there are plenty of things to work on with this club, and I don't think Monahan being up here is that crucial right now. Let him go down and focus on working on his holes and being a leader amongst his peers and at the WJCs.

And don't be too hasty in dismissing the financial savings. That 1 year might not seem like a big deal right now, but in a few years time, when we are a better team and everyone is up for raises, those few million dollars might be the difference between signing/trading for someone, or not. You need to think of future cap-space even when you have a ton of it... otherwise you'll turn into the Oilers.

Plus, as Enoch Root stated, it would give us a chance to focus a bit more on guys who need a better look. Monahan is a guy who you know will turn out either way...some other guys, who knows?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

he goes into rough areas but he doesn't hit? He negotiates or reaches in to attempt to get the puck?

Toews did not hit much in his first year in the league. He still does not hit much considering the role he plays. He did have a +40 Takeaway/giveaway last year and in his rookie year had 8 giveaways and 29 take aways in 64 games. He only had 27 hits in 64 games.... in 60 games Monahan should have 10 hits.

In Toews first playoff year his second NHL season he had 19 hits in 17 games.

Right now there is no way I can see Monahan stepping it up physically when he goes up against the other teams best centres in important games.

I think you can agree that is the role that the flames are counting on him to take over when they are a serious playoff team. He needs to grow.

I am really worried that if he plays 60 games as a fringe player that it will be more difficult for him to grow out of it.

It will get worse for him as the NHL season goes along. Already because of his scoring success and talent the other teams coaches are making game plans that involve physical domination of Monahan.

You seem to think that if he stays in the NHL for the full season, any growth in his game is impossible. That's wrong. If anything, judging his physical stats by his first 6 games is ignorant.

Just to put this argument of yours to bed, I looked up the stats for Jonathan Toews first 6 games:

Toews-
2G, 4A, 1 Hit, 0 BkS, 38%FO

Monahan-
4G, 2A, 1 Hit, 1 BkS, 42.1%FO

Monahan has performed better or equal to Toews in every category. Same amount of points and hits, more blocked shots (1), and a higher FO%.

Now go away with your silly argument. Toews got better, he was 19, he didn't perform as well as Monahan has. The end.

[Stay Golden]

I will laugh with disgust at the Flames if they send Monahan down and keep Street up with the team.
Street gets pushed off the puck easily and doesn't have anything close to the hockey IQ or skill set of Monahan.
I see Street make bad passes at both ends of the rink on most shifts.


Monahan 4g 2a 1 GWG -1 FO% 42
Street 1a. -1 FO% 46
both averaging 14 min in 6GP each.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I will laugh with disgust at the Flames if they send Monahan down and keep Street up with the team.
Street gets pushed off the puck easily and doesn't have anything close to the hockey IQ or skill set of Monahan.
I see Street make bad passes at both ends of the rink on most shifts.


Monahan 4g 2a 1 GWG -1 FO% 42
Street 1a. -1 FO% 46
both averaging 14 min in 6GP each.

I think Street's hockey IQ is quite fine.

The difference between these two is that Street can play bottom 6, while once Jones, Cammy, and Stajan come back, it squeezes Monahan out of the lineup a bit.

With that said though, Monahan had one bad game. Let's let it play out.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I think Street's hockey IQ is quite fine.

The difference between these two is that Street can play bottom 6, while once Jones, Cammy, and Stajan come back, it squeezes Monahan out of the lineup a bit.

With that said though, Monahan had one bad game. Let's let it play out.

not a bad game BUT a underwhelming game.

he was only a minus 1 BUT he had ZERO shots on net (that includes Sven as well)... i know hudler had only 3 shots on net BUT he had PP time so maybe that whole line just couldn't click...

Saturdays game is huge and will tell... which SJ line will match up against the sven - mona - huds?

[metroneck]

Either way there will be positives and negatives...

At least if he goes down, he can work on his skating and core/ lower body strength. I'm not saying they're a huge problem for him, but they need to be improved for the NHL. If he stays, the schedule makes that kinda development tougher.

The list of players being rushed and gone bust is miles longer than the ones that went bust after being sent down.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by metroneck

Either way there will be positives and negatives...

At least if he goes down, he can work on his skating and core/ lower body strength. I'm not saying they're a huge problem for him, but they need to be improved for the NHL. If he stays, the schedule makes that kinda development tougher.
The list of players being rushed and gone bust is miles longer than the ones that went bust after being sent down.

That is likely due to higher expectations than it is actual development.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by strombad

You seem to think that if he stays in the NHL for the full season, any growth in his game is impossible. That's wrong. If anything, judging his physical stats by his first 6 games is ignorant.

Just to put this argument of yours to bed, I looked up the stats for Jonathan Toews first 6 games:

Toews-
2G, 4A, 1 Hit, 0 BkS, 38%FO

Monahan-
4G, 2A, 1 Hit, 1 BkS, 42.1%FO

Monahan has performed better or equal to Toews in every category. Same amount of points and hits, more blocked shots (1), and a higher FO%.

Now go away with your silly argument. Toews got better, he was 19, he didn't perform as well as Monahan has. The end.

Toews broke his finger sept 21, 2007 Missed the first 2 games of the 2007-08 season and then played as tough and productive as Monahan.

By the way Toews played more than 19 minutes a game in 4 of his 1st 6 games including killing penalties. Toews extra year after getting drafted gave him time to get ready to play in the NHL.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Toews broke his finger sept 21, 2007 Missed the first 2 games of the 2007-08 season and then played as tough and productive as Monahan.

By the way Toews played more than 19 minutes a game in 4 of his 1st 6 games including killing penalties. Toews extra year after getting drafted gave him time to get ready to play in the NHL.

Those were the first six games he played, not including the time he missed with a broken finger.

Only an idiot would include games Toews didn't play. You argument is baseless. If it's true that he has played more minutes over 6 games than Monahan, then Monahan has the same points, the same hits and more blocked shots than Toews did in less time played.

Monahan first 6 games > Toews first 6 games

Are we going to continue proving you're wrong?
I'm ready to stop when you are.

[sureLoss]

67's prepare for life without Sean Monahan:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...566/story.html

Off the top, there is no bigger fan of Sean Monahan. But Byrne might have thought this was the week the 67’s captain might be making plans to return to the 67’s after playing his ninth game with the Calgary Flames Tuesday night in Phoenix.


Instead, Monahan is the talk of the Flames’ surprising start and Byrne is resigned to the fact that Monahan will likely play his 10th game Thursday in Dallas, at which point the centre’s entry-level NHL contract kicks in. If that happens, he won’t return.

“For Moni to have gone in as such a young player and catch on so quickly, and do what he has done and have the impact he has had, is a credit to him,” Bryne said Friday after stepping off the ice in Erie, Pennsylvania. “But I have to worry about who is here and coach (this) team. And it’s not going to help anyone if we’re worrying about who is not here.

[getbak]

https://twitter.com/DarrenHaynes_CP/...66318862434304

Darren Haynes ‏@DarrenHaynes_CP
By the way, Monahan has seven points now. If he goes back to junior, he'll be the highest scoring player sent down since 9-game trial began.

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by Envitro

It's funny, someone mentioned the quiz on TSN last night, and Bob was the only one on the panel that said he should be sent down.

Interestingly both Ward and Johnson, former players themselves, said that he'd benefit more from being in the NHL than playing the 4th year of Junior.

It was me who mentioned it.
I was trolling a bit when I said I agreed with Bob.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

It was me who mentioned it.
I was trolling a bit when I said I agreed with Bob.

How about you stop trolling all together?

[Stay Golden]

Just another 2 points for the kid

[Buck Murdock]

send him down, get the high draft pick, get some experienced players from a team in cap trouble. Long term plan Feaster.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

send him down, get the high draft pick, get some experienced players from a team in cap trouble. Long term plan Feaster.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by getbak

https://twitter.com/DarrenHaynes_CP/...66318862434304

Maybe he wrote it early but Monahan has 5-3 for 8 points in seven games, the kid would seriously have a hate-on for the organization if he's sent down..and the fans would not be happy with Feaster.

[Cheerio]

Monahan scored tonight better keep him up now! He belongs in junior for another year.