5 RCMP cars get torched in NB. Protestors and arsonists arrested.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

The Court. You do realize that Natives don't operate outside of the Canadian legal system, but within it. Natives rights to land are a type of property right within our legal framework.

Court says GTFO, you GTFO.

Obviously they operate within it, but I think the point is they don't believe they should have to and this is a form of resistance.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Yeah... see, I don't believe that one. It's a pretty radical individual who blankly refuses to recognize the jurisdiction of a Canadian superior Court. The vast majority of First Nations people live in the real world, and realize that while they may be treated differently under the law having access to special status and constitutional protections that other Canadians don't, they're still, you know, required to obey the law, as it applies to them.

Seriously I would like you to provide me with a few mainstream examples of first nations leaders in this country who support that perspective.

http://www.chiefs-of-ontario.org/faq

Our right to self-determination means we have jurisdiction (the right, power and authority) to administer and operate our own political, legal, economic, social and cultural systems.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I still don't believe they have a right to violence.

I agree that they went to far with burning the cars. That being said, they weren't killing children either. Considering we've seen cop cars burnt in recent riots in Toronto and Vancouver, it's hardly just Aboriginal people who are committing these acts. What's happening to the Aboriginal people is also a lot more important and emotional than having your physically weak hockey team lose a Stanley Cup final.

Once again, I would try and see things from their persepctive. This is unceeded land. The government sent in hundreds of armed men to support an oil copanies right to mine. Yes they had a court injunction, but it was from a court that the aboriginal people never consented to jurisdiction under (at least not without severe duress).

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by rubecube

http://www.chiefs-of-ontario.org/faq

The passage you have quoted has an entirely different meaning than what you are suggesting. I can guarantee you that the chiefs of Ontario would not subscribe to treating the mounties like an invading police force for attempting to enforce an injunction. Typically, bands will be participants in the legal process, and challenge decisions they disagree with by filing an appeal. They will attempt to influence such decisions either by directly participating in the hearing or obtaining intervenor status. I am aware of no first nations leader of any repute who would sanction the kinds of tactics (setting fire to police cars, brandishing guns, building pipe bombs, etc.) we see here.

Either way though you'd be right if you were to accuse me of operating under a world view based on the premise that Canadian First Nations are part of Canada and subject to Canadian law. If your perspective differs I don't see how we can have a meaningful discussion because I disagree with the foundation of your philosophy. Conversely, because of the foundation of mine, there is simply no basis upon which these actions are defensible.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Obviously they operate within it, but I think the point is they don't believe they should have to and this is a form of resistance.

Sounds like Freeman on the Land logic. Picking and choosing what laws they want to abide by.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Sounds like Freeman on the Land logic. Picking and choosing what laws they want to abide by.

I'm sure their ideal choice was to be colonized....

And yes Aboriginal people in Canada have special status. They have their own societies that existed prior to Canada. The Federal government has a duty to protect those societies.

[sureLoss]

Protestors are now seizing the media's vehicles that are covering them:

Brett Ruskin ‏@Brett_Global 1h BREAKING: Global NB reporter @01LBrown says #Rexton protesters have seized her vehicle and camera equipment.


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown 1h Just told to get out of my car, that it was seized. Warriors angry, aggressive and scary. @Global_NB


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown 1h
My car has been seized by "warriors", along with the CTV sat truck. We're now with a Sun News reporter going to #RCMP @Global_NB


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown 1h
I asked to take my camera- they said its seized with the car. @Global_NB #nb


Laura Brown ‏@01LBrown 58m
We're waiting for the #rcmp now. "I've never been kicked out of my truck before" CTV employee. @Global_NB

[CaptainCrunch]

Calling these people warriors is a joke.

If they want to burn police cars, seize vehicles and physically threaten people then start the pepper spray express.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Protestors are now seizing the media's vehicles that are covering them:

Now I'm curious: Did any of them think of the publicity that this would get? You need to get public support on your side and evicting people from their vehicles and taking their equipment, even if everybody hates the media, is about the dumbest thing you could do. Besides torching them.

[moon]

Originally Posted by kirant

Now I'm curious: Did any of them think

Considering their actions and the actions of their "brothers" in similarly stupid "protests" I think we can end the sentence there and just say no.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by moon

Considering their actions and the actions of their "brothers" in similarly stupid "protests" I think we can end the sentence there and just say no.

What do you mean by brothers, moon?

[moon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

What do you mean by brothers, moon?

I mean other groups like this that have used violent protest against groups like the RCMP trying to enforce the law.

I used brothers because there could be groups outside of Natives that have taken similar actions and I don't want to paint it as a solely native issue. The use of the word brother in quotation marks is because I see a lot of talk about solidarity with their "brothers in NB" when reading/hearing about this issue from supporters of the "protestors."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Strangely enough, this story isn't getting much coverage here in Cali, so I just had to do a catch up just now.

Firstly, pure idiocy to attack the media who is a neutral observer in all this and is likely to be more on the side of the natives than not...UNLESS of course they are being violent #######s and attacking RCMP officers without provocation.

As well, I wanted to respond to someone who mentioned that there is a possibility of being a provocateur...ridiculous. First of all the incidents were within a local provincial police force and not the national force, with a larger amount of local politics at play. Plus, the Quebecois have had their fair share of corruption and scandals within their politics for quite some time now. The RCMP don't give a crap about politics from what I know about them. The RCMP are some of the most highly regarded national police forces in the world. Their internal standards are very, very high, and they only chose the highest quality individuals to even begin training. One of my very good friends is an RCMP officer and from what he has told me regarding the culture of the force they sound like the most dependable and honourable of people available in our society. We should consider ourselves extremely lucky that the RCMP are who they are and not some haphazard corrupt group trying to cut corners and use violence to get a quick resolution to events like this one.

I am disgusted with the protestors for attacking these honourable peacekeepers, and quite frankly I don't care if they might be in the right on this issue, they have lost all credibility with me.

[icecube]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-b...paign-1.188599






FROM THE ARTICLE...



The Mounties bombed an oil installation as part of a dirty tricks campaign in their investigation into sabotage in the Alberta's oil patch.
The revelation came at the bail hearing Thursday of two farmers who the Crown says have turned their complaints that oil industry pollution is making their families ill into acts of vandalism and mischief.
Their lawyer produced evidence that the RCMP bombed a wellsite and that they did it with the full support of the energy company that owned it. The Crown admits the allegations are true.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by icecube

The Mounties bombed an oil installation as part of a dirty tricks campaign in their investigation into sabotage in the Alberta's oil patch.
The revelation came at the bail hearing Thursday of two farmers who the Crown says have turned their complaints that oil industry pollution is making their families ill into acts of vandalism and mischief.
Their lawyer produced evidence that the RCMP bombed a wellsite and that they did it with the full support of the energy company that owned it. The Crown admits the allegations are true.

That explains everything, I knew Ludwig was still alive!!

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

As well, I wanted to respond to someone who mentioned that there is a possibility of being a provocateur...ridiculous. First of all the incidents were within a local provincial police force and not the national force, with a larger amount of local politics at play. Plus, the Quebecois have had their fair share of corruption and scandals within their politics for quite some time now. The RCMP don't give a crap about politics from what I know about them. The RCMP are some of the most highly regarded national police forces in the world. Their internal standards are very, very high, and they only chose the highest quality individuals to even begin training. One of my very good friends is an RCMP officer and from what he has told me regarding the culture of the force they sound like the most dependable and honourable of people available in our society. We should consider ourselves extremely lucky that the RCMP are who they are and not some haphazard corrupt group trying to cut corners and use violence to get a quick resolution to events like this one.

Now THAT, is some awesome satire!

[Tinordi]

Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly love the denunciation of violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.

[CaptainCrunch]

At this point in time, I'm proud to be labeled a redneck by Tinordi. That's completely made my day.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Lots of a-holes who know jack about the history of aboriginal peoples or the context of these protests in this thread. I honestly live the denunciation off violence and the complete dismissal of 200 years of state sanctioned violence which went a few degrees further than some torched cruisers. Keep it up rednecks.

You are an unbelievable Dbag.

[Tinordi]

I also take it that if a fracking company thought there was gas beneath your backyard and they "consulted" with you by telling you they were going to drill a well in your back yard you'd just take it lying down?