Butler - You Knew This Was Coming

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

That's the pipeline. I would put it - Smith, Breen, Ramage, Wotherspoon, Seiloff. But I don't expect that you'll see either of the kids that just came out of junior. I don't believe Breen has NHL skill, but he took big AHL strides forward last season.

I think Ramage is the guy we should bring up to have in the rotation.

From what PMM has said in the Abby thread Ramage is struggling to find consistency at the pro level still. Some games he looks really good, some games invisible, and some games just bad. I don't think he's ready for that next step yet. Sieloff is injured, and Wotherspoon isn't ready yet either, so it would be Smith or Breen.

[TheDebaser]

Does anyone remember Ramage outplaying Smith in the preseason? If he's the better guy then why don't we go with him?

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

Honest question though, do the TOI figures include PP and PK time? Butlers the only D man on our team who skates a regular shift on the PK but not on the PP. Given the increased likelihood of shots for when you're on the PP and shots against when you're on the PK (and the decreased likelihood of shots against when on PP and shots for when on PK), these Corsi figures might have a bit of a bias against someone in Butler's role. Whereas they might favour someone like Russell who plays PP but not PK.

Anyways, just something that jumped out at me.

Corsi is Even-strength only. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have low Corsi numbers in some situations. Such as a player who starts in his own zone against top competition all the time. The big problem with Butler's numbers is there's no explanation other than he's just not good enough to take an NHL shift. He doesn't face top competition and he starts in his own just under 50% of the time. He almost literally couldn't be worse.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

Corsi is Even-strength only. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have low Corsi numbers in some situations. Such as a player who starts in his own zone against top competition all the time. The big problem with Butler's numbers is there's no explanation other than he's just not good enough to take an NHL shift. He doesn't face top competition and he starts in his own just under 50% of the time. He almost literally couldn't be worse.

Don't bring your fancy stats into this! The Butler fanbois state that he only makes 1.7M and he is good enough to be our 5-6 d-man even though you only need eyes and a TV set with the hockey game on it to tell he is a brutal hockey player.

Derek Smith better be in next game so when the Sharks tune on us the Butler crowd can tell me its obvious Chris Butler should have stayed in the lineup.

[MisterJoji]

Butler still in the projected line up for tomorrow night.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Butler still in the projected line up for tomorrow night.

Somebody needs to pull a Tanya Harding then.

[GGG]

In a rebuilding team one member of the defense should be a prospect. Even if it means rotating through a few different guys just to give them nhl exposure. So even if Breen, Ramage, Seilof etc arent quite ready but are close we should give them a regular shift.

Butler Smith, and SOB are not top 4 and not in the future so two of them should never be playing at the same time.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by GGG

In a rebuilding team one member of the defense should be a prospect. Even if it means rotating through a few different guys just to give them nhl exposure. So even if Breen, Ramage, Seilof etc arent quite ready but are close we should give them a regular shift.

Butler Smith, and SOB are not top 4 and not in the future so two of them should never be playing at the same time.

I love this idea. I'd much rather see Breen/Wotherspoon/Cundari/etc. make a mistake while acclimatizing to the level of the NHL, than a guy who is constantly making mistakes and has 273 NHL games under his belt.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Butler still in the projected line up for tomorrow night.

This is so perplexing as to why. Does Butler have compromising photos of Hartley or Feaster? Why is he being given every single chance with this team?

Meritocracy my ass.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Muta

This is so perplexing as to why. Does Butler have compromising photos of Hartley or Feaster? Why is he being given every single chance with this team?

Meritocracy my ass.

hard to showcase a player from the press box

[kirant]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I love this idea. I'd much rather see Breen/Wotherspoon/Cundari/etc. make a mistake while acclimatizing to the level of the NHL, than a guy who is constantly making mistakes and has 273 NHL games under his belt.

According to PMM, of those, only Breen probably looks good enough. Cundari had a terrible start and I think he'll probably need to show he's consistent with his improved game before getting a call up. Wortherspoon is having growing pains to the AHL. NHL is pretty much out of the question for him at the moment.

It sounds like our D options for 6/7 are Butler/Smith/Breen. I've mentioned before I don't mind moving or waiving one of Butler or Smith to bring up Breen. Or maybe at least let Smith play a game...he's been pretty brutal the last few games he's been in, but Butler has been a disaster to start the year.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I love this idea. I'd much rather see Breen/Wotherspoon/Cundari/etc. make a mistake while acclimatizing to the level of the NHL, than a guy who is constantly making mistakes and has 273 NHL games under his belt.

absolutely, they couldn't be worse could they?

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

absolutely, they couldn't be worse could they?

This is becoming losing us the game bad. There is no worse than that.

[Falclore]

We need Butler to pull together a good 10+ games in a row so we can trade him out of town... I know I'm dreaming

[Wolfman]

We need Butler to trip on a banana peel and break his leg

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Muta

This is so perplexing as to why. Does Butler have compromising photos of Hartley or Feaster? Why is he being given every single chance with this team?

It probably has something to do with how the coaches see A LOT more than any fan possibly can, and they know infinitely more about their players and the situation than any casual outside observer.

Butler is a marginal bottom-pairing defenseman on a marginal NHL team, with no clear better options. Is anyone honestly surprised that he does not look very good? I expect that this is the reason why he continues to play. Honestly, if all we as fans have to complain about is a bottom-pairing defenseman, that has to be considered a huge positive.

[JobHopper]

Interesting to see how "fans" on here like to pile on certain players but when someone says something even remotely critical of another player they're pretty much mocked. If Butler was even a 1/10 as bad as people here make him out to be he wouldn't even be good enough for your rec team. But carry on.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

hard to showcase a player from the press box

It is better to play him and let opposing GM's see how terrible he is? I am pretty sure we could waive him and he would clear.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is better to play him and let opposing GM's see how terrible he is? I am pretty sure we could waive him and he would clear.

A couple trade deadlines back Backlund and Butler were mentioned as two Flames that teams were expressing interest in. Our view of him is clouded by the hate for him on the board coupled with the fact Sutter misused him as a top 2 dman when he's not. He might clear waivers only for the issue that money is tight with the cap. But I have no doubt there remains interest in him as a bottom pairing dman. Feaster would have little problem finding interest in him but problem is who do you replace him with?

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

A couple trade deadlines back Backlund and Butler were mentioned as two Flames that teams were expressing interest in. Our view of him is clouded by the hate for him on the board coupled with the fact Sutter misused him as a top 2 dman when he's not. He might clear waivers only for the issue that money is tight with the cap. But I have no doubt there remains interest in him as a bottom pairing dman. Feaster would have little problem finding interest in him but problem is who do you replace him with?

Anyone?