Rape Watched?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Guess you couldn't support your assertion with any evidence

You doubt the assertion that police are more misogynistic than the average joe?

If you want evidence for it, I'm not going to to your googletarding for you.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, it's 2013, "no" means "no."

Not to be contrary for the hell of it, but I dated a girl a few years back that had hardcore rape fantasies, and no definitely meant yes. It isn't that cut and dry.

Probably TMI, but that 'fetish' certainly exists.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by evman150

You doubt the assertion that police are more misogynistic than the average joe?

If you want evidence for it, I'm not going to to your googletarding for you.

Oh I see so not only are the police negligent in the execution of their duties, they are misogynists.......hmmm.....I am pretty confident that you don't have any evidence to support you statement that "police don't take rape seriously" and were just talking out your a$$.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.

We agree on so many things. I believe we have similar socio-political viewpoints.

This girl was in public shoving this guy's head into her box. If anything, the guy has a right to call rape more than the girl.

I appreciate your left wing defence, because usually I'm the one giving that type of argument, but here you're hopelessly wrong.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Get consent first. It's really not that ####ing hard.

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

[jayswin]

I always like when this topic comes up because everyone says things that make me go "whoa".

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back.

I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.

fight back? even if they showed total disinterest I would get up and leave.

Maybe some guys wouldn't but I think at least I would pick up on the bad vibes. I don't think I 've ever been in a situation where the girl was not showing interest in what was going on and I would assume that is consent. Sure I've had girls look like they had second thoughts and regrets, mere minutes after, like my girlfriends sister for instance, but never before or during.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

We need a checklist.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

And that's the salient point here. The main reason I am so vehemently against this girl is that I could easily have been that guy. I've done some wild and somewhat public #### that I would not have wanted on facebook and twitter. This guy did nothing more than me or you or millions of other guys have done. But because the girl feels embarrassed and ashamed his life is possibly ruined.

This could have been me. My life could have been ruined by a vindictive girl. Thankfully it wasn't me, but I'm sure as hell going to stand up for a guy whose life could hang in the balance here.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

We need a checklist.

I'm gonna start carrying around waivers at the bar.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

Not to be contrary for the hell of it, but I dated a girl a few years back that had hardcore rape fantasies, and no definitely meant yes. It isn't that cut and dry.

Probably TMI, but that 'fetish' certainly exists.

I'm assuming this was established at some point ahead of time in the relationship? I don't think you just raped her one night and hoped she'd be into it.

[return to the red]

Hmm, I wonder if the rape implication isn't that act itself but the video taping of it? She probably didn't consent to that

[jammies]

Reading the news story, the accusation seems highly unlikely in the extreme. That she did not give consent and yet acted as she did seems a huge stretch - IF the story is being reported correctly, which is definitely not a given.

The story has only gotten wide exposure because of two things: one, it occurred publicly with witnesses, and two, it was recorded and made available for voyeurs. Its message has less to do with another triumph of misogyny, and is rather more like another example of how reality is increasingly defined by outlier events that make it to the media.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Do we need written consent for all sexual activity now? Don't know about anyone else but I can't ever recall needing some formal agreement stating that we were engaging in a consensual act. Usually if a girl takes her clothes off and basically allows me free reign about her body, I feel like it's not rape...

I'm pretty sure I said verbal. Like I said before, 9/10 you could be right, and maybe you are someone who can take a hint when a girl's not really interested. I'm just advocating for what's in everyone's best interests.

[19Yzerman19]

Yeah, I'm not going to watch the video but the notion that drunk or drugged girls who are actively participating in sex and give all outward indications that they're completely on board with it can then allege rape is somewhat problematic for me. I'm not an expert but my understanding has always been that if someone's been drugged they're generally not in a state where they're physically capable of participating in anything closely resembling consensual sex.

The "just ask outright" thing, I don't buy at all, because at some point there's tacit consent. Personally, I honestly don't think I've ever outright asked a girl if she wanted to have sex the first time we had sex, we'd just be doing other stuff which then escalates to getting nekkid. Regardless of level of sobriety.

Originally Posted by rubecube

And you know what, you might be right the majority of the time but if you do some research on sexual assault, you'll come across a number of reasons why a woman might not fight back. I guess I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to get consent. It's a good habit to get into and can save you and other people a lot of problems.

There's a pretty bright, wide line between "not fighting back" and "actively participating". Yes, there are situations where a woman might actively participate and not consent - if she fears for her life and thinks it might save her from harm. But outside of extraordinary situations, the guy should be able to tell if a girl is down without her having to enunciate it, and saying "no" is not difficult.

As for why people don't ask, that should be obvious. It kills the mood and can just throw the whole process off. "Can you please confirm that I am not raping you when I do this", is effectively what you're asking, which is not exactly the subject matter that one ideally wants on everyone's mind while they're getting down to business.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by evman150

We agree on so many things. I believe we have similar socio-political viewpoints.

This girl was in public shoving this guy's head into her box. If anything, the guy has a right to call rape more than the girl.

I appreciate your left wing defence, because usually I'm the one giving that type of argument, but here you're hopelessly wrong.

As someone who's been drugged with GHB before, someone could've shoved my #### into a rattlesnake's mouth and I probably would've thought it was a pretty awesome idea. That doesn't mean I was consenting to it.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by rubecube

As someone who's been drugged with GHB before, someone could've shoved my #### into a rattlesnake's mouth and I probably would've thought it was a pretty awesome idea. That doesn't mean I was consenting to it.

Apparently I have to do GHB. Point taken. Minus the rattlesnake of course.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

I think there is a few reasons. One is that being a rapist is the 2nd worse thing you can be behind child molesters. Far far worse then murder, assault, theft or other crimes.

2nd is that if you are falsely accused there is no way to prove your innocence. At best it is a he said she said situation. In other crimes usually there would be other evidence collected.

3rd a probably the biggest reason is fear that it could happen to them. I can avoid being accused of most crimes by not putting myself in a situation where that could happen. If you are single you can't really avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could be falsly accused.

So I see why guys are concerned about it. Its also the most damaging thing you can do to a guy besides kill him.
It doesn't make it equivalent to rape though

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

There's a pretty bright, wide line between "not fighting back" and "actively participating". Yes, there are situations where a woman might actively participate and not consent - if she fears for her life and thinks it might save her from harm. But outside of extraordinary situations, the guy should be able to tell if a girl is down without her having to enunciate it, and saying "no" is not difficult.

Just blatantly false, man. I would advise you to do some research on sexual assault victims.

As for why people don't ask, that should be obvious. It kills the mood and can just throw the whole process off. "Can you please confirm that I am not raping you when I do this", is effectively what you're asking, which is not exactly the subject matter that one ideally wants on everyone's mind while they're getting down to business.

Really, you can't think of any creative ways to get consent other than asking outright? Not even simply asking a girl if she likes what you're doing to her? Or a "Hey, you want me to [insert euphemism]?"

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think there is a few reasons. One is that being a rapist is the 2nd worse thing you can be behind child molesters. Far far worse then murder, assault, theft or other crimes.

I would say it depends on who you are accused of murdering, how, etc.

2nd is that if you are falsely accused there is no way to prove your innocence. At best it is a he said she said situation. In other crimes usually there would be other evidence collected.

People get found not guilty of murder all the time and still have the rest of society believing they're guilty (see: Simpson, OJ).

3rd a probably the biggest reason is fear that it could happen to them. I can avoid being accused of most crimes by not putting myself in a situation where that could happen. If you are single you can't really avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could be falsly accused.

This is true, but there are steps you can take to protect yourself. And yes, I fully agree that women who do falsely accuse men should be punished, but when 1 in 4 women are being sexually assaulted, with only 1 out of 10 rapists usually being convicted, I think that changing rape culture should take priority over the 2-4 men out of 100 who are falsely accused.