Rape Watched?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The thing is you can't just start making up nefarious what-ifs or reasons about how this could be an evil rape plot. Because if that's the case, Im sure someone could also start thinking up stories about how she drugged him or blackmailed him into sex. There is still that whole "innocent till proven guilty" thing. From what we have to work with right now (ie, the video) it seems like it's pretty consensual. I guess we'll have to see how it shakes out (that is if we don't all forget it).

At the end of the day though, if he did rape her, he should be get thrown in jail. And at the end of the day, if she is lying, she should get thrown in jail. I don't think thats unfair.

Completely fair, and that's all I was trying to get at with my comments in this thread, but I guess I didn't articulate it very well. Which is par for the course for me.

[sureLoss]

It is possible that the guy slipped something in her drink (e.g. roofie/ghb etc.), we just don't know all the details before the video started happening. If she was under the influence of something like that and still appeared to enjoy it, it is still rape.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I agree with you if she's sober and doesn't really want to but decides not to say anything and goes along with ait nd appears to enjoy it (run on sentence!). But as soon as alcohol enters the discussion, it's a whole new ball game.

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

Whoops, that's what I meant to say in my post. "As long as she agrees". I suck today.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

Originally Posted by flameswin

That's not true.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Green text?

Originally Posted by _Q_

huh?

So let me get this straight, you have sex with a girl and in her mind she doesn't want it, but doesn't say anything about it to you, and she seems to be totally into it while it's happening.

Can she then wake up the next day and say "oh God! I didn't like that, it was rape!" and charge you? Doesn't that open a whole can of worms?

I believe there issue is the enlarged portion of your post.

How can you say what she does or does not do if you have not seem the video?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Table 5

At the end of the day though, if he did rape her, he should be thrown in jail. And at the end of the day, if she is lying, she should be thrown in jail. I don't think thats unfair.

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

It is possible that the guy slipped something in her drink (e.g. roofie/ghb etc.), we just don't know all the details before the video started happening. If she was under the influence of something like that and still appeared to enjoy it, it is still rape.

Yes, that's possible I guess. And judging by the video, maybe she did the same to him? We can make up what ifs all we want, but sheesh, yes maybe he drugged her, let's just go with it!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

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I believe there issue is the enlarged portion of your post.

How can you say what she does or does not do if you have not seem the video?

Well that and the whole "it can't be rape if she's enjoying herself." Physical stimulation doesn't negate emotional trauma.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I haven't watched the video, but if she looks as though she's enjoying it and she's not in any way trying to fight him off or calling for help, then it is 100% definitely not a rape.

Huh? define the whole she's enjoying it thing? Please enlighten me.

A girl that's had too much to drink and is lying there getting raped is grunting and groaning? Is she enjoying it?

Same story with a girl that's had a roofee slipped into her drink.

As a guy, even I know that the biggest thing is to ask "Are you sure" after a night of dropping depth charges and cheap beer.

The old image of grabbing a girl after a night in the bar and taking her home where she's piss out of her mind drunk and slamming her against the wall and hammering her in the hallway is dead.

Its her body, if she can't say yes or understand what's going on because she can barely stand up, then your taking advantage of a situation that she can't make a clear judgement on.

do you want to have sex? Yes, its that easy.

If you say, do you want to have sex? and she throws up on your shoes and falls face first onto the carpet with her skirt flipped up, that's not consent.

At the very least in this case, the police have to become involved as soon as she cried rape. If witness say that she was that drunk, that she didn't consent, then the law calls that rape.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

I guess because of the public shame lashed towards rapists/sexual harassers? You're really putting a guy in a shameful/shunned category of society if you successfully falsely accuse them, but you're definitely right that the outcry is odd considering the stats, and I say that as one of the ones who worries and comments about it.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Get consent first. It's really not that ####ing hard.

Originally Posted by rubecube

There can be a whole whack of reasons why a girl might not say no and appear to enjoy it (fear being a big reason). It's really up to you to get consent. If a girl says "yes" and then cries rape afterwards, then you have a whole different story.

But seriously, just get consent.

But a lot of times with sex, consent is implied. Does everyone have to ask "hey, would it be ok to have sexual intercourse right now?"

Come on, this is the real world we're talking about, not hypotheticals.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And I totally agree. It just seems like the false-reporting thing comes up in every CP thread about rape, but we never see it in any other crime-related threads. Why do you think that is?

Probably because anything to do with sex is always more of a story than something like say, tax evasion. People like their drama.

It should all be treated seriously though. Falsely accusing someone of anything illegal that has potential to do serious damage, should not be something that comes without consequence.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The old image of grabbing a girl after a night in the bar and taking her home where she's piss out of her mind drunk and slamming her against the wall and hammering her in the hallway is dead.

Ummm, I don't believe that scenario was ever "alive" as a legitimate way to have sex, there captain.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I guess because of the public shame lashed towards rapists/sexual harassers? You're really putting a guy in a shameful/shunned category of society if you successfully falsely accuse them, but you're definitely right that the outcry is odd considering the stats, and I say that as one of the ones who worries and comments about it.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that a rape accuser's past, their manner of dress and everything else could be dredged up by the defense. I was always amazed that there were ever any woman that were willing to stand up against sexual assault.

Thank god our court system moved forward from that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Ummm, I don't believe that scenario was ever "alive" as a legitimate way to have sex, there captain.

What you don't watch movies?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What you don't watch movies?

Not the same type you watch apparently

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

But a lot of times with sex, consent is implied. Does everyone have to ask "hey, would it be ok to have sexual intercourse right now?"

Come on, this is the real world we're talking about, not hypotheticals.

Who is it implied by? A recent study suggests that many men are very poor at reading non-verbal cues, so what you think might be implied may not actually be the case.

And there are many ways of getting verbal consent that aren't cold and technical. Maybe you need to brush up on your pillow-talk.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Who is it implied by? A recent study suggests that many men are very poor at reading non-verbal cues, so what you think might be implied may not actually be the case.

And there are many ways of getting verbal consent that aren't cold and technical. Maybe you need to brush up on your pillow-talk.

So if a girl playfully says "No", giggles proceeds to keep trying to turn you on and pull you on top of her, doesn't resist and seems to be enjoying it while it's happening is it rape? You didn't get verbal confirmation that it's OK, but it was implied that she'd like to have sex.

Similarly, if you tell a girl "I'm going to #### your brains out b###" and she looks terrified, says "OK", resists, is crying through the whole thing and just wants to be left alone after, does the fact she was OK make it consensual?

All I'm saying is it's never black and white and simply hearing a "Yes" or "No" rarely mean anything.

[Brannigans Law]

Apparently tacit approval of sex leaves us all open to rape charges, according to some here.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So if a girl playfully says "No", giggles proceeds to keep trying to turn you on and pull you on top of her, doesn't resist and seems to be enjoying it while it's happening is it rape? You didn't get verbal confirmation that it's OK, but it was implied that she'd like to have sex.

Has this actually happened to you? I didn't say that not getting verbal consent equals rape 100% of the time. I said not getting verbal consent can be considered sexual assault, and there are numerous reasons why a woman may not resist. All I said, is it's much easier to just get consent and then not have to worry about it.

All I'm saying is it's never black and white and simply hearing a "Yes" or "No" rarely mean anything.

Dude, it's 2013, "no" means "no."