Butler - You Knew This Was Coming

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

The options outside of Butler for that sixth spot is Smith, Breen, Cundari, Billins in that order.

Sieloff is injured, Wotherspoon is miles away from ready, and Ramage has been just okay down with the Heat. The Heat's best defenceman so far has been Drew MacKenzie (again), but he's on an AHL deal only.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think whoever replaces him will do just as poorly.

On a team like this, you're going to have players over their heads. Butler is the guy right now, but we all know that it'll be somebody else once he's gone.

I don't think that's true. Wideman/Russell/Giordano/Brodie have the top 4 spots, and about 45 minutes of ice time covered. We just need an honest to gosh 3rd stringer guy who won't screw up his few shifts a night. I'm willing to try any other guy we have under contract. Even Breen.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Gunkle

Mentally craps the bed periodically - check

Is there a way to crap the bed mentally? Well, if there is, it's not surprise it is Butler who has figured it out.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO he's hit a wall and his offensive game isn't as good as expected given what he did in junior but it's early in the season so IMO it's not a crisis.

Brodie has been playing out of his MIND so far this season until that Anaheim game.

2nd/3rd year in the league playing top pairing minutes with another guy who isn't a top pairing defender, and WINNING games in that role.

Frankly, for a guy dropped into the deep end, he's swimming around like a fish, not thrashing around, gasping for breath. We might have seen the first instance of that last night, but until now he's been nothing but stellar.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

At least he's still young and cheap

For a defenseman averaging 15 minutes a game with little offensive production, he's not cheap. He's being paid like a 5th defenseman when he's showing that he's not even that.

I've always thought that Butler was a fringe NHL defenseman who had the potential to be a #4 in the league. He's clearly got the tools to be an NHL defenseman but it was his inconsistency and lack of offensive production that left him without a spot on the Sabres. Let's face it, Butler is 27 and entering his 6th NHL season. If he isn't getting better this is likely the best Butler will ever be in the NHL. Butler has actually been pretty lucky. All those games and minutes he logged as a Flame likely extended his NHL career for another couple of years. The next stop really is that of a depth defenseman for Butler.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Being traded for a long time Flame gets you games for the sake of optics ... even when the optics are like staring into the sun.

Do you honestly believe that Bob Hartley is being told to play Butler because Feaster traded for him.
Really?

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I know fans still cling to Smith's initial stint with the Flames two years ago when he looked pretty good but the truth is since he got injured he's been absolute garbage the past two seasons. There is no way he's better than Butler. I would bring up a defenseman from Abbotsford before playing Smith.

Why shouldn't Smith be given a chance to show what he has? He has shown WAY better games in less opportunity than Butler ever has as a Calgary Flame.

I know youre a Butler supporter as you've blasted me for the last two plus years anytime I say Butler is bad, there is no way Smith is worse than Butler.

We KNOW what we have in Chris Butler, HORRIBLE hockey IQ, not physical, not good defensively, a black hole on offense, can't make a good pass out of his zone to save his life and in panic mode anytime he has the puck on his stick...you know the same stuff i've been saying for years...

Let Smith show he is "absolute garbage" at the expense of Butler for the next couple of games, can't hurt the team more than having Chris Butler in again. If Smith can't hack it, then time to go to Abby.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Do you honestly believe that Bob Hartley is being told to play Butler because Feaster traded for him.
Really?

No kidding. It's not as though Cervenka got premium minutes or Ramo has been force fed the first 6 starts. I think Feaster (a) has too much respect for Hartley to dictate playing time and (b) Hartley would tell Feaster to shove it.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

No kidding. It's not as though Cervenka got premium minutes or Ramo has been force fed the first 6 starts. I think Feaster (a) has too much respect for Hartley to dictate playing time and (b) Hartley would tell Feaster to shove it.

Ramo and Cervenka were free agents though. For Butler we paid a lot. That said, I have no idea whether Feaster forces Hartley to play him. In fact, I have no idea at all what forces Hartley to play him.

[Imported_Aussie]

Butler is IMO the 6th best defenceman the Flames have fit and ready to play. He is better than Smith, if Smith's more recent body of work is what we judge him on. I would like to see Smith get some game time though, one to send a message to Butler that he is replaceable, and two to see if Smith can play better and leapfrog Butler on the depth chart. When Breen is fit, I would like to see him draw in, even if it means sending Smith down, as he may not need to clear waivers again, depending on when the transaction is made.
I think Butler is a guy who is expendable to the rebuild, and should be brought into trade discussions to see if any teams are interested in giving him more time. I have thought for a while he was a guy who needed time and consistent roles in the team to improve, but he is not showing improvement, and with young guys in the system, there will come a time when they push hard enough to justify being brought up over Butler.
If I were Feaster, once Breen is fit, if he is looking good and/or if any of the guys under contract in Abbotsford start really pushing for time with the big club, I would be putting Butler out there, especially towards teams who need depth on D in light of injuries. He may yet have upside, and all it takes is 1 other GM to think so, and then a trade could happen. Junk for junk trade perhaps, but if the Flames could nab a project RW, I would call it a win.

[1_Flames_Fan]

I figure he must have pictures of Feaster and Hartley in a threesome with a goat because there is no other explanation why he had remained on this team and continues to be in the lineup.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Why shouldn't Smith be given a chance to show what he has? He has shown WAY better games in less opportunity than Butler ever has as a Calgary Flame.

I know youre a Butler supporter as you've blasted me for the last two plus years anytime I say Butler is bad, there is no way Smith is worse than Butler.

We KNOW what we have in Chris Butler, HORRIBLE hockey IQ, not physical, not good defensively, a black hole on offense, can't make a good pass out of his zone to save his life and in panic mode anytime he has the puck on his stick...you know the same stuff i've been saying for years...

Let Smith show he is "absolute garbage" at the expense of Butler for the next couple of games, can't hurt the team more than having Chris Butler in again. If Smith can't hack it, then time to go to Abby.

I'm not a Butler supporter. I simply don't think he's all that bad considering his pay and spot on the depth chart. It's not like he's a -8 player that is costing the Flames when he's on the ice and he's also playing a role on the PK which hasn't been that bad as of late. The problem is that fans are all over him when he makes a mistake like last night but when Brodie makes the same mistake it's not a big deal. The difference right now between SOB and Butler is that Hartley plays Butler on the PK so if you sit Butler do you have SOB or Smith on the PK in his place? I don't think that's a good idea.

If Derek Smith was a better option than SOB or Butler do you really think Hartley wouldn't have him in the lineup? Smith was awful last year and obviously hasn't done enough this season in Hartley's eyes so far.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Do you honestly believe that Bob Hartley is being told to play Butler because Feaster traded for him.
Really?

Yep. And certainly not for a guy who is about to be a UFA unless they're trying to showcase him for a trade.

[edn88]

I don't really care about what occured in the past, just where we are now...

Butler has been brutal, we have cap space, we should give some one else a try - cannot be any worse.

[Muta]

I would rather have Cundari in that spot. He played extremely well at the end of last season. He didn't impress that much in camp, but hey... Butler isn't impressing that much in the regular season anyways.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If Derek Smith was a better option than SOB or Butler do you really think Hartley wouldn't have him in the lineup? Smith was awful last year and obviously hasn't done enough this season in Hartley's eyes so far.

We are talking about the coach who scratched TJ Brodie last year.

[Husky]

Not sure why the Flames dont bring up Cundari. I see him as that Andrew Ference type mold. A great third string D with a few intangibles. Just dont make Cundari your top 4 and captain...

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not a Butler supporter. I simply don't think he's all that bad considering his pay and spot on the depth chart. It's not like he's a -8 player that is costing the Flames when he's on the ice and he's also playing a role on the PK which hasn't been that bad as of late. The problem is that fans are all over him when he makes a mistake like last night...

I agree. He had a bad gaff last night for sure but so have Glencross, McGrattan, Wideman and Brodie so far this season. Statistically he's probably right around where you might expect a 5th or 6th D man and he even leads the entire team in blocked shots.

Overall nothing special but not the root cause of all the teams woes that some make him out to be. Unfortunately, even though it's totally unfair, I think he's always going to receive more scrutiny because it was Regehr going the other way in the trade.

[Tyler]

Get Rid of Butler:

http://flamesnation.ca/2013/10/17/ge...f-chris-butler

You're welcome Kent!

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

Overall nothing special but not the root cause of all the teams woes that some make him out to be.

That's a bit of a straw man, nobody has blamed him for all the teams woes.

Kinda same as Bouwmeester. At the end of the day, I just don't want to pay to watch him play.