What do you want out of this season? Pick or Playoffs? - Page 9 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Rerun · 10-10-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Hoping for losses, especially this early in the season, makes me think of that spoiled brat, unwrapping gifts, tossing them aside and looking for the one, never satisfied.

Put in an honest effort with what you have. If it doesn't work, fix it. Just don't deliberately pull the wheels off your truck because you heard the Sears Christmas Wish Book is going to rock this year.

I don't think anybody is hoping (or cheering for) losses, me included. I'm just not upset when they lose (provided I see development and improvement in our younger players... the older ones I don't care about as they aren't the future... other than extra draft picks or prospects, when we trade them).

Rerun · 10-10-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Summed up my thoughts exactly.

Playoff position or not, Beaster better not hang on to Stempniak/Stajan/Cammalleri only to lose them in summer to free agency.

What about if he tries to re-sign them?

MolsonInBothHands · 10-10-2013, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

If you trade away your better veteran players (and that's the ones that will be tradable) for draft picks (you said it...not me), that's exactly what will happen.

That isn't guaranteed, probable, sure. Especially if you have developed prospects down the line to move up. IMO, it's very doubtful Cammy returns, regardless of where the Flames finish this year. Is it a fit for him or the team? Getting something for him before he is gone is responsible asset management, not intentionally tanking.

It's simple. I always want the team to win. I don't believe in intentionally losing to get that shiny new toy. I also don't believe in getting impatient an d trying to accelerate the rebuild by trading assets that won't help the team long term. Some of our older assets will have the most value at trade deadline, and I think, now that the toughest decisions were made last year, that the current management will make more tough decisions if they are the right ones this year.

Macho0978 · 10-10-2013, 04:31 PM

I think that is the beauty of this season. I would prefer a top pick, I really think we could use another guy like Monahan. Maybe that type of player on the blueline but if we keep winning and it is because guys like Monahan, Sven, Brodie are playing big minutes and guys like Hudler, Jones, Gio, Wideman, who are wrapped up for a few years are the reason why we get to the playoffs then I'm ok with us making the playoffs.

But I also wouldn't mind getting more assets for guys like Cams, Lee, Glencross and go into next year with another top rookie or 2

I do think us finishing dead last and finish up with 65 points isn't as good as most think. Dream season is we play hard, stay in alot of games, limit the blow outs and finish around 5th last and 75 points

The Fonz · 10-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

What about if he tries to re-sign them?

I'd be okay with re-signing Stempniak for a few years. But if it's not done prior to the trade deadline, they'd better trade him, as Stempniak is likely seeking too long of term, or he's wanting to test free agency.

No to re-signing Cammalleri. His career is trending downward, and I personally don't like his attitude.

No to Stajan as well. I view him as a 3rd line center, and I feel like we could replace him with a younger player.

Wolven · 10-10-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

What about if he tries to re-sign them?

There are not enough spots on the roster to keep all our veterans and have room for the rookies too.

- I like how Stajan has improved but I would not want to re-sign him over allowing our young centers to move up the depth charts. At this point my biggest hope is that he improves enough to be able to command more than just a 2nd round pick in return.

- Cammalleri is a personal fav and think he would be a great role model for the kids but my guess is that he will want to go to a team that is in the playoff hunt. I would rather trade him for a 1st + at the deadline than hang onto him and risk losing him for nothing.

- Stempniak has shown to be a great linemate for Monahan and Baertschi. I would consider re-signing him if that continues all season. However, if Cammalleri re-signs then I would trade Stempniak and hope that another player can fill this spot.

Of the pending UFAs, I would only consider keeping one of them and even then I would probably try to make another trade to send out a veteran that is under contract (SOB or Butler if Breen can hold down a 3rd line role).

troutman · 10-10-2013, 04:49 PM

I agree with the opinion that you should start every season with the best of intentions, and try to win every hockey game.

If ii is mid-March, and the playoffs are impossible or a long shot, what is wrong with tanking then? Seems like prudent asset management at that point. I'm not sure it poisons the franchise with a loser's curse.

codynw · 10-10-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolven

Of the pending UFAs, I would only consider keeping one of them and even then I would probably try to make another trade to send out a veteran that is under contract (SOB or Butler if Breen can hold down a 3rd line role).

So, you want to have almost zero veteran players on the team? That's a great idea, reminds me of what Edmonton did and we all know how great their rebuild went!

MolsonInBothHands · 10-10-2013, 05:00 PM

Selling off assets in light of grim chances of making or succeeding in the playoffs is a far cry from bitching when the teams wins because it hurts your chances at 1st overall. I just want the team to have success, to win. I don't care if I have a franchise player or generational talent's name on my jersey to boast about, as long as the team is winning.

Rerun · 10-10-2013, 05:15 PM

If I was the GM and if I had the opportunity, at a reasonable cost and contract length, I would re-sign Stemp and Stajan.

Even though Cammy is better than those two, I'd trade him (and not necessarily at the deadline). He's got better trade value for future prospects.

Some people figure he's worth a 1st round pick + but I wouldn't be at all surprised if his market value, at age 31, is actually a second round pick. Stemp and Stajan definitely aren't worth a second round pic (well maybe they would be if it was a package deal... two for one).

Wolven · 10-10-2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

So, you want to have almost zero veteran players on the team? That's a great idea, reminds me of what Edmonton did and we all know how great their rebuild went!

I guess you are new to the Flames roster and have no idea what the team is comprised of between Rookies and Veterans. Even if we trade away the pending UFAs mentioned before (Stajan, Stempniak, Cammalleri) we would still have more than enough veterans on the team to mentor / shelter the additional young kids brought up through the system.

Hudler
D. Jones
Glencross
Galiardi
McGrattan
Jackman
Backlund

Giordano
Wideman
SOB
Butler
Smith

MacDonald

Arguments could be made that an older guy like Street or B. Jones is actually a veteran even though he is inexperienced in the NHL specifically. Even Ramo and Berra are experienced professional players, they are only new to the NHL.

My point is that the Flames right now are pretty veteran-heavy for a rebuilding team that wants to inject youth. We obviously have room to shed a couple of veterans immediately as we have seen the team play better than expected with two of our best veteran forwards out of the lineup.

If Backlund suddenly became the oldest guy on the roster at the trade deadline then I would be more in agreement of your dramatic reaction.

codynw · 10-10-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

If I was the GM and if I had the opportunity, at a reasonable cost and contract length, I would re-sign Stemp and Stajan.

Even though Cammy is better than those two, I'd trade him (and not necessarily at the deadline). He's got better trade value for future prospects.

Some people figure he's worth a 1st round pick + but I wouldn't be at all surprised if his market value, at age 31, is actually a second round pick. Stemp and Stajan definitely aren't worth a second round pic (well maybe they would be if it was a package deal... two for one).

I think Camallerri could land a 1st round pick in the 20th-30th overall range, if any of the teams that want him have the cap space.

Enoch Root · 10-10-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

No it isn't. There are a lot of things the team could do to increase their chances of making the playoffs... trading some of their young players and future prospects for vets, for example.

Should they do this? No. Does that mean they are trying to lose on purpose? No. They are just doing whats best for the team's future success and by success I mean winning the Stanley Cup... not just making the playoffs.

But some posters (including you I think) have stated that they want the team to lose.

Big, big difference between looking to lose, and not de-railing the long term plans.

I haven't seen anyone say that they want the team to bring in assets for a playoff run this year - no one wants that.

But winning is always good. Winning breads winning and grows confidence.

There is no better experience for young players than the playoffs.

Wolven · 10-10-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

If I was the GM and if I had the opportunity, at a reasonable cost and contract length, I would re-sign Stemp and Stajan.

Even though Cammy is better than those two, I'd trade him (and not necessarily at the deadline). He's got better trade value for future prospects.

Some people figure he's worth a 1st round pick + but I wouldn't be at all surprised if his market value, at age 31, is actually a second round pick. Stemp and Stajan definitely aren't worth a second round pic (well maybe they would be if it was a package deal... two for one).

CPers really like to undervalue Flames assets in trades.

Who cares if Cammalleri is 31? Jagr at 40 ended up being worth a 1st. Cammalleri might not be as amazing of a player as Jagr (was), but I would agrue that Cammalleri at 31 is going to help a team win in the playoffs more than Jagr at 40.

Stajan and Stempniak are showing that they can fill in anywhere from first line roles to third and would provide solid depth for any playoff team. Those kinds of assets do not generally go for cheap at the deadline.

Rerun · 10-10-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolven

CPers really like to undervalue Flames assets in trades.

I think the opposite is true. Cp'ers tend to overvalue Flames assets... and when a trade is made I'm usually proven correct. We're never happy with the return at the time of the trade.

dammage79 · 10-10-2013, 05:42 PM

Playoffs, although Ekblads Beard keeps me close to the fence ready to jump over to picks in case it all goes wrong.

Seriously though, I hope the Flames can keep up the effort most of the season. Playoffs or not, these guys are doing it right.

Also, please no "upgrade" trades at the deadline if we're close to a spot. Ride this horse to the end.

djsFlames · 10-10-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

If I was the GM and if I had the opportunity, at a reasonable cost and contract length, I would re-sign Stemp and Stajan.

Even though Cammy is better than those two, I'd trade him (and not necessarily at the deadline). He's got better trade value for future prospects.

Some people figure he's worth a 1st round pick + but I wouldn't be at all surprised if his market value, at age 31, is actually a second round pick. Stemp and Stajan definitely aren't worth a second round pic (well maybe they would be if it was a package deal... two for one).

1st or no deal!

Then we take our two 1sts after squeaking in at the 8th seed and move up to a 7-10 overall pick like Vancouver did for Horvat.

Baxter Renegade · 10-10-2013, 06:07 PM

Obviously Id love to see them in the playoffs, but I think we still need a high draft pick this year and next to become a great team capable of competing in tne playoffs.

Hopefully we can make the playoffs this year, and trade Cammy and Glencross for some decent first round picks or prospects with potential.

Enoch Root · 10-10-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think the opposite is true. Cp'ers tend to overvalue Flames assets... and when a trade is made I'm usually proven correct. We're never happy with the return at the time of the trade.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"

Tinordi · 10-10-2013, 06:10 PM

CP undervalues its player in trade proposals. Now I've heard everything.