Rumor Philadelphia interested in Glencross

[strombad]

Just on the whole Jankowski/Monahan thing.
Feaster said that had Jankowski been born SLIGHTLY later and gone into the 13 draft, he would've been a top 5 pick. Is there really anyone who would've picked him top 10 after putting up 18 points in College hockey?
I firmly believe that the Flames believe Jankowski is going to be a stud, but really, he hasn't shown anything to suggest it to me.
If they are both in the 13 draft, and you can choose either at pick #6, honestly, how can you not take Monahan?

[moon]

Originally Posted by DOOM

I still disagree that Jankowski has a year more of development.

How much coaching, help, camp time or even possibility of playing them did Monahan have from the Flames last year?

Because my guess is that Jankowski certainly had a lot of help from them and certainly could have played for them.

That would seem to indicate one guy has had a year more of development with the Flames than the other guy that wasn't even allowed to have any development time with them at all.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by moon

How much coaching, help, camp time or even possibility of playing them did Monahan have from the Flames last year?

Because my guess is that Jankowski certainly had a lot of help from them and certainly could have played for them.

That would seem to indicate one guy has had a year more of development with the Flames than the other guy that wasn't even allowed to have any development time with them at all.

Didn't know you were specifically talking deveoplement with the Flames.

Even then though Jankowski's development time is pretty limited considering he is an NCAA and has only attended prospect camps.

[moon]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Didn't know you were specifically talking deveoplement with the Flames.

Even then though Jankowski's development time is pretty limited considering he is an NCAA and has only attended prospect camps.

Sorry thought the reference to the draft would indicate it but yes I am more concerned about development time since draft in terms of Monahan already able to make NHL and look like he fits the year after his draft compared to Jankowski looking at least a few years out. To me that is impressive and a plus in Monahan's column.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by moon

Based on what exactly?

Monahan was just picked 6th in a supposed deep draft, Jankowski was picked 21st in a supposed average draft. Monahan is looked at as a virtual lock to be 1st line center on the WJHC team and Jankowski is a long shot to make the team.

I know many people have bought into the Jankowski is boom or bust so boom means he is going to be great if he hits but I haven't read a single reliable prospect report on him to indicate he has a higher ceiling or more skill than Monahan.

He certainly hasn't shown it to this point in their respective careers so what are you basing him having more skill and a higher upside than Monahan on?

Also do you honestly think if Jankowski was drafted by the Oilers/Canucks and Monahan was still a Flames prospect you would have the same view about them?



I am basing my ranking on Jankowski on my outlook that there is no way he has the same ceiling as Monahan let alone a higher ceiling. I think absolute best case scenario (baring crazy situation a la St. Louis where guy takes huge jump that nobody saw coming) Jankowski turns into decent 50 point 2nd line center. I think likely he turns into a guy that gets 20-40 games because of where he was picked and spends most of career in Euro leagues.

Why bring up how they compare right now? Do you know the difference between a project pick, and one that isn't? Monahan was never a project pick. He was touted as a guy that could very well be ready to step into the NHL and contribute straight from the draft. WJC? I guess to you, all prospects follow a very linear path of development, and if they take longer they are complete busts? Is that why you brought up the WJC, since it had absolutely nothing to do with the point.

You originally lumped Jankowski in with more 'depth' prospects like Knight, Reinhart, Horak (forgot who else and lazy to look it up). My point is that Jankowski has a WAY higher offensive ceiling, and arguably moreso than Monahan.

Look up his scouting reports - comparables: Nieuwendyk and Spezza. He has an elite offensive ceiling - that is coming from scouting services. But he is a project pick and will take longer to develop, with a possibility of busting.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You keep pointing to 'now', when I have already stated that right now, Monahan is the VASTLY superior prospect (it isn't even close). I guess you don't see that projects (like Gaudreau was) can really have very high offensive ceilings but need much more time to develop into NHL players (and are much more likely to bust).

Thanks for insinuating the whole 'fanboy' stuff though. Yes, if Jankowski was a prospect on Van, I would be as high on him (as long as I took as much time to research and watch him). I think Van did outstanding in drafting Horvat, and I am pretty sure I have stated on this board that he will probably end up being a future captain (though doubtful he will be a #1 center). Don't really see the point of calling anyone a 'fanboy' on a Flames message board discussing the prospects.

You don't like Jankowski, I guess we will just leave it at that. I am not (and never did) say he WILL be Calgary's 1st line elite center, or that he WILL (much less IS) better than Monahan - but you took what you wanted to justify your position when all I argued is that he is arguably the highest offensive ceiling center..

Nicely done though. You made me write a long rant out of trying to explain myself better. LoL.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by moon

Sorry thought the reference to the draft would indicate it but yes I am more concerned about development time since draft in terms of Monahan already able to make NHL and look like he fits the year after his draft compared to Jankowski looking at least a few years out. To me that is impressive and a plus in Monahan's column.

Agreed on those points.

I like Jankowski as a prospect, but I wouldn't put him in Monahan's league at all.

Jankowski has top 6 potential, but it is still far from being a sure thing, while Monahan is already showing his legit top 6 potential.

[Vinny01]

I haven't watched much Janko but I don't see how his ceiling is higher than Monahans offensive or otherwise. The only thing he might have on Monahan is an inch in height and he is a faster skater.
Janko is Joe Colborne to me I just hope he is able to reach his potential better than Joe has so far. I think Janko has top 6 upside but not hopeful he will be an elite player unless he takes a massive step forward this year which is possible

[dissentowner]

Does it really matter who turns out better? Time will tell but they are both Flames property so it is all good. Now sit in this circle, sing kumbaya, and have a damn smore.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I haven't watched much Janko but I don't see how his ceiling is higher than Monahans offensive or otherwise. The only thing he might have on Monahan is an inch in height and he is a faster skater.
Janko is Joe Colborne to me I just hope he is able to reach his potential better than Joe has so far. I think Janko has top 6 upside but not hopeful he will be an elite player unless he takes a massive step forward this year which is possible

Off-topic but I think by game 40 we are all going to really like Joe Colborne.

Good skill, great size and a decent skater. Also been more physical then I expected.

I think as he becomes more comfortable we will start to see him break out a little.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by strombad

Just on the whole Jankowski/Monahan thing.
Feaster said that had Jankowski been born SLIGHTLY later and gone into the 13 draft, he would've been a top 5 pick. Is there really anyone who would've picked him top 10 after putting up 18 points in College hockey?
I firmly believe that the Flames believe Jankowski is going to be a stud, but really, he hasn't shown anything to suggest it to me.
If they are both in the 13 draft, and you can choose either at pick #6, honestly, how can you not take Monahan?

do you have a link?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Off-topic but I think by game 40 we are all going to really like Joe Colborne.

Good skill, great size and a decent skater. Also been more physical then I expected.

I think as he becomes more comfortable we will start to see him break out a little.

I didn't mean it as a put down to Joe. I loved the trade but remember 3-4 years ago B's fans said he was the next Joe Thornton. I think he will be a good player for us as well. He has a lot of tools and can't teach his size

[moon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why bring up how they compare right now? Do you know the difference between a project pick, and one that isn't? Monahan was never a project pick. He was touted as a guy that could very well be ready to step into the NHL and contribute straight from the draft. WJC? I guess to you, all prospects follow a very linear path of development, and if they take longer they are complete busts? Is that why you brought up the WJC, since it had absolutely nothing to do with the point.

I bring up how they compare right now because that is the information we have to use how they will project in the future.

Just because Jankowski is a project pick doesn't mean he will improve more than Monahan or that he will be better in the long run.

The WJHC is relevant because it shows the level that Monahan is already at and the fact that he has elite level skills already that are going to improve while Jankowski is trying to improve on lesser skill levels and hoping that somehow he will be able make leaps and bounds bigger jumps if he is going to surpass Monahan.

I don't think all prospects take linear steps but I also don't see why Jankowski is going to take massive steps to improve and Monahan isn't.

You originally lumped Jankowski in with more 'depth' prospects like Knight, Reinhart, Horak (forgot who else and lazy to look it up). My point is that Jankowski has a WAY higher offensive ceiling, and arguably moreso than Monahan.

I also said that I mislabeled him with those guys and moved him to a different category since they all are older with professional experience and he is a prospect.

Look up his scouting reports - comparables: Nieuwendyk and Spezza. He has an elite offensive ceiling - that is coming from scouting services. But he is a project pick and will take longer to develop, with a possibility of busting.

I haven't seen those comparables when reading about him but still not as impressive as the Toews/Staal comparables of Monahan.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You keep pointing to 'now', when I have already stated that right now, Monahan is the VASTLY superior prospect (it isn't even close). I guess you don't see that projects (like Gaudreau was) can really have very high offensive ceilings but need much more time to develop into NHL players (and are much more likely to bust).

I can see that just fine but I guess you seem to not see that guys drafted high in the draft can have very high offensive ceilings as well which is why they are drafted that high.

I am not saying Jankowski can't have a high offensive ceiling I am saying I have seen/read nothing to indicate it so far. Gaudreau also has a lower ceiling in my view than Monahan.

If we aren't using what these guys are showing us right now to evaluate what they can do in the future I am not sure what you think we should use instead?

Thanks for insinuating the whole 'fanboy' stuff though. Yes, if Jankowski was a prospect on Van, I would be as high on him (as long as I took as much time to research and watch him). I think Van did outstanding in drafting Horvat, and I am pretty sure I have stated on this board that he will probably end up being a future captain (though doubtful he will be a #1 center). Don't really see the point of calling anyone a 'fanboy' on a Flames message board discussing the prospects.

I wasn't insinuating I was honestly asking you. It wasn't meant to be a shot at you but many posters on this board seem to become very pro whatever guy we drafted and I have doubts that they would feel that way about the same player if he was drafted by another team. Look at the way other team prospects get talked about here. I understand why they do it and if that is not the case with you then that's fine and I believe you. Was meant as an honest question not to insinuate anything else.

I agree that I don't see the point of calling someone a fanboy which is why I didn't say it.

You don't like Jankowski, I guess we will just leave it at that. I am not (and never did) say he WILL be Calgary's 1st line elite center, or that he WILL (much less IS) better than Monahan - but you took what you wanted to justify your position when all I argued is that he is arguably the highest offensive ceiling center..

Can you show me where I did what you are accusing me? All I argued against is that Jankowski had a higher ceiling than Monahan. Not sure where I took any of that or talked about it at all. I thought all along your point was he had the highest ceiling and argued against that.

Not really sure why you have so much anger in the post and why you can't just address the issues without taking offense to things that aren't there (fanboy, #1 elite center).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by moon

I base it on reading reports from those that have seen him play, comparing stats against others that play with him against him and have played before him, looking at his accomplishments (ie. what teams he has made, what levels he has played at, what individual awards he has won). It is possible to form opinions on guys in the age of the internet and extensive reporting done on players especially first round picks.

It's okay, just admit you haven't seen him rather than trying to dance around the subject and make sound like you have a clue about him based on what bloggers have said. I'll point out, yet again, that the vast majority of the blogs that are out there, are data aggregaters who do nothing but repeat what is said elsewhere, so the original and quality information out there is limited, especially for a guy like Jankowski who played at Stanstead, in a league not covered by regular scouts, and then Providence, which was a small school with a defense first philosophy. The fact of the matter is that there was little to no reporting on Jankowski prior to the draft and very little afterwards, so your claim of gaining insight from the bloggers is specious at best.

What indication is that he is an exceptional talent? It is great that he improved as the season went on. I would expect that is the case for almost every freshman player and especially one that was a first round pick. As Chris Rock would say "improving is what he is supposed to do."

You mean besides everything that was said about him at the draft? He has exceptional talent and that is what caught people's imagination.

Not sure what incredible conclusions I came to and never said he was a bust at all. I don't expect much out of him but put his ceiling as a second line center. That would be a very good result for a guy drafted at 21 and far from someone I think is a bust right now.

You said, "I think likely he turns into a guy that gets 20-40 games because of where he was picked and spends most of career in Euro leagues." Direct quote. Verbatim. That's a bust. That's pretty definite. For a kid you have never seen. If this kid were drafted by Detroit or Vancouver or almost anyone other than Calgary, you wouldn't care about him because you know nothing about him. You should stick with that here.

[moon]

Originally Posted by New Era

It's okay, just admit you haven't seen him rather than trying to dance around the subject and make sound like you have a clue about him based on what bloggers have said. I'll point out, yet again, that the vast majority of the blogs that are out there, are data aggregaters who do nothing but repeat what is said elsewhere, so the original and quality information out there is limited, especially for a guy like Jankowski who played at Stanstead, in a league not covered by regular scouts, and then Providence, which was a small school with a defense first philosophy. The fact of the matter is that there was little to no reporting on Jankowski prior to the draft and very little afterwards, so your claim of gaining insight from the bloggers is specious at best.

Did you read what I said. I directly said I have not seen him play NCAA games and have seen highlights and some time he had in development camp. There is no dancing around it at all I said it right in this thread twice now.

Don't read blogs so not sure why you are going after me on that. There are scouting services out there that aren't blogs or data aggregators as you call them. If you want to rant about them go ahead but not sure what it has to do with this topic right now.

You mean besides everything that was said about him at the draft? He has exceptional talent and that is what caught people's imagination.

People said that at the draft? I watched it and heard he has intriguing potential and a varied view about what he can become. I also heard he was very raw and would need a lot of work. Didn't hear about this exceptional talent and if it is there why haven't we seen any evidence of it?

You said, "I think likely he turns into a guy that gets 20-40 games because of where he was picked and spends most of career in Euro leagues." Direct quote. Verbatim. That's a bust. That's pretty definite. For a kid you have never seen. If this kid were drafted by Detroit or Vancouver or almost anyone other than Calgary, you wouldn't care about him because you know nothing about him. You should stick with that here.

That is what I think he will become not what he is so no I do not think he is a bust yet. If he turns out as I expect then yes he will be a bust. If he were drafted by Detroit or Vancouver I would expect that based on what he has shown he would be a bust. I wouldn't care about him as much but he is a Calgary prospect so I do care about him and do follow what he is doing.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

do you have a link?

I tried searching for one after I posted that, as I had remembered it quite clearly, but I can't seem to find it. Label it as hearsay I suppose, take it or leave it.

[-TC-]

Based on the first few games and most of last season, I'd be listening to offers on Glencross...I think a change of scenery would do him good...or not, I don't really care.

For the right deal, move him right away. No place for someone who coasts on this team.

[DOOM]

lol some of you are overreacting to Glencross's play so far. Hes been fine.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by New Era

You said, "I think likely he turns into a guy that gets 20-40 games because of where he was picked and spends most of career in Euro leagues." Direct quote. Verbatim. That's a bust. That's pretty definite. For a kid you have never seen. If this kid were drafted by Detroit or Vancouver or almost anyone other than Calgary, you wouldn't care about him because you know nothing about him. You should stick with that here.

Originally Posted by moon

That is what I think he will become not what he is so no I do not think he is a bust yet. If he turns out as I expect then yes he will be a bust. If he were drafted by Detroit or Vancouver I would expect that based on what he has shown he would be a bust. I wouldn't care about him as much but he is a Calgary prospect so I do care about him and do follow what he is doing.

LOL. I said I think he'll be a bust, but I never said he'll be a bust. Oh moon

[Iggy Snipe]

Hopefully we ship him out. He is as lazy as I have ever seen him. Thinks he is a star or something. Not a fan of him.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

LOL. I said I think he'll be a bust, but I never said he'll be a bust. Oh moon

I think someone is misunderstanding here because I said I think he will end up being a bust not that he is a bust now. I think there is a difference here and that is what it looked like Eddy was saying to me. If I was wrong it what he was saying then sorry.

So keep loling if it makes you feel better.