Location: Chicago Native relocated to the stinking desert of Utah
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Since their loss in the SCF, it has been downhill for Philly...Agree that this mess can be laid at the feet of the GM...but, as usual, the Coach goes first.
Berube is the HC, for now, and gets to shuffle the deck chairs on the sinking ship...
Nothing, however, will improve until a new GM hires his own guy for HC...and I expect that, later this season
__________________ "If the wine's not good enough for the cook, the wine's not good enough for the dish!" - Julia Child (goddess of the kitchen)
They traded Richards and Carter since they supposedly butted heads with Pronger, Pronger ended up playing 13 games after they made that decision.
Haven't been able to build their defense properly without him.
Agreed. Holmgren built his team around Pronger and then lost him. He has spent the last couple years trying to work around that and hasn't been able to. Tough luck, but it IS on him.
Except when he traded Richards and Carter he didn't get spare parts.
As bad as the team has been the returns of Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, and Schenn were all good pick-ups.
That team should be better, I think a new coach may help them return to form.
And they were a playoff team that won a playoff round just two seasons ago, really they only had a terrible 48 game season.
Exactly, even with those trades being 2+ years old and at the time some people said "We can only wait and see" - it still looks like a pretty even trade, if not in Philly's favour.
They traded Richards and Carter since they supposedly butted heads with Pronger, Pronger ended up playing 13 games after they made that decision.
Haven't been able to build their defense properly without him.
I am just curious on how did you know about this. Are you just speculating or making up this story hoping we all bite and believe it? Sorry I just don't like made up stories because I always hear that in Flames organization.
I am just curious on how did you know about this. Are you just speculating or making up this story hoping we all bite and believe it? Sorry I just don't like made up stories because I always hear that in Flames organization.
Maybe because that was widely speculated in the media around the time of the trade.
The question you have to ask yourself is, why did this firing take so long?
Couldn't Holmgren have seen the writing on the wall by, say, the third period of the Flyer's first game?
And how could a competent GM ignore the debacle of the second period of Philly's second game?
And finally, there was the unforgiveable incident at the 8:23 mark of the first period of the Broad Street Bullies' third game. Why Holmgren didn't put the bullet in his coach right there and then, we'll never know.
For a club to survive in today's NHL, the GM must be a lot more pro-active than Holmgren has been to date.
I don't think Holmgren's done that bad of a job, the only real poor decision he made was trading Van Riemsdyk for L.Schenn. They lost Pronger and Timmonen got older, that's pretty much what caused their decline.
I don't think Holmgren's done that bad of a job, the only real poor decision he made was trading Van Riemsdyk for L.Schenn. They lost Pronger and Timmonen got older, that's pretty much what caused their decline.
I think you are forgetting about all the terrible contracts he negotiated.
Congrats to Craig Berube, the original 2 time Flame on his first head coaching gig.
The infamous fight vs Ana...the best moment of that starts at 19:20 when captain Dave fires the puck over the glass intentionally...simply to be able to stop the play with 13 seconds left, as Berube's original major was over...and because of the stoppage, he could come back out. The point by Gilbert, and Friesen craps his pants.
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Congrats to Craig Berube, the original 2 time Flame on his first head coaching gig.
The infamous fight vs Ana...the best moment of that starts at 19:20 when captain Dave fires the puck over the glass intentionally...simply to be able to stop the play with 13 seconds left, as Berube's original major was over...and because of the stoppage, he could come back out. The point by Gilbert, and Friesen craps his pants.
i totally forgot about that! thank you so much for reminding me. this was awesome.
That was an epic game. I really don't remember that but awesome.
__________________
"You're worried about the team not having enough heart. I'm worried about the team not having enough brains." HFOil fan, August 12th, 2020. E=NG
just took a look at Holmgrens moves over the years and it's really not THAT bad - thought it'd be worse. In terms of trades, he has done pretty well over the years ... in terms of signing players, not so much.
Noteworthy trades:
Spoiler!
15-Feb-07: traded Peter Forsberg to Nashville for Scottie Upshall, Ryan Parent, a 2007 1st round pick (later traded back - Jon Blum), and a 2007 3rd round pick (later traded to WSH - Phil DeSimone)
24-Feb-07: traded Alexei Zhitnik to Atlanta for Braydon Coburn
18-Jun-07: traded a 2007 1st round pick (Jon Blum) to Nashville for Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell
1-Jul-07: traded Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson and a 2009 3rd round pick (later traded to CGY - Ryan Howse) to Edmonton for Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul
25-Feb-08: traded Alex Picard and a 2009 2nd round pick (Richard Panik) to Tampa Bay for Vaclav Prospal
18-Jun-08: traded Vaclav Prospal to Tampa Bay for a 2008 7th round pick (Joacim Eriksson) and a 2009 conditional pick
20-Jun-08: traded R.J. Umberger and a 2008 4th round pick (Drew Olson) to Columbus for a 2008 1st round pick (Luca Sbisa) and a 2008 3rd round pick (Marc-Andre Bourdon)
20-Jun-08: traded a 2008 1st round pick (John Carlson) to Washington for Steve Eminger and a 2008 3rd round pick (Jacob Deserres)
7-Nov-08: traded Steve Eminger, Steve Downie and a 2009 4th round pick to Tampa Bay for Matt Carle and a 2009 3rd round pick (Simon Bertilsson)
4-Mar-09: traded Scottie Upshall and a 2011 2nd round pick (Lucas Lessio) to Phoenix for Daniel Carcillo
26-Jun-09: traded Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, a 2009 1st round pick (John Moore), a 2010 1st round pick (Emerson Etem) and a conditional 3rd round pick to Anaheim for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle
6-Feb-10: traded Ole-Kristian Tollefsen and a 2011 5th round pick (Mattias Backman) to Detroit for Ville Leino
1-Jul-10: traded a 2012 2nd round pick (Colton Scissons) to Tampa Bay for Andrej Meszaros
19-Jul-10: traded Simon Gagne to Tampa bay for Matt Walker and a 2011 4th round pick (Marcel Noebels)
14-Feb-11: traded a 2011 1st round pick (Stuart Percy) and a 2011 3rd round pick (Josh Leivo) to Toronto for Kris Versteeg
7-Jun-11: traded Matt Clackson, a 2011 3rd round pick (Harrison Ruopp) and a 2012 3rd round pick (later traded to PIT - Oskar Sundqvist) to Phoenix for Ilya Bryzgalov
23-Jun-11: traded Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek, a 2011 1st round pick (Sean Couturier) and a 2011 3rd round pick (Nick Cousins)
23-Jun-11: traded Mike Richards and Rob Bordson to Los Angeles for Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and a 2012 2nd round pick (later traded to DAL - Devin Shore)
1-Jul-11: traded Kris Versteeg to Florida for a 2012 2nd round pick (later traded to TBL - Brian Hart) and a 2012 3rd round pick (Shayne Gostisbehere)
16-Feb-12: traded a 2012 2nd round pick (Devin Shore) to Dallas for Nicklas Grossmann
18-Feb-12: traded Jon Kalinski, a 2012 2nd round pick (Brian Hart) and a 2013 4th round pick (Tobias Lindberg) to Tampa Bay for Pavel Kubina
22-Jun-12: traded Sergei Bobrovsky to Columbus for a 2012 2nd round pick (Anthony Stolarz), a 2012 4th round pick (Taylor Leier) and a 2013 4th round pick (later traded to LAK - Justin Auger)
23-Jun-12: traded James van Riemsdyk to Toronto for Luke Schenn
26-Feb-13: traded a 2013 4th round pick (Justin Auger) to Los Angeles for Simon Gagne
3-Apr-13: traded Michael Leighton and a 2015 3rd round pick to Columbus for Steve Mason
12-Jun-13: traded Shane Harper and a 2014 4th round pick to the Islanders for Mark Streit
some good work here. The trades with the Preds were pretty good, Holmgren effectively got Hartnell, Timonen, Upshall and Parent for Forsberg. The Coburn and Leino trades were also very good and IMO the Carter and Richards trades also favour the Flyers. Obviously some "meh" trades in between as well, but overall, Holmgren hasn't been that bad in that department.
Noteworthy signings:
Spoiler!
1-Jul-07: signed Danny Briere (8 years at 6.5m)
27-Jun-08: re-signed Jeff Carter (3 years at 5.0m)
21-Jul-08: re-signed Joffrey Lupul (4 years at 4.25m)
7-Jul-09: re-signed Chris Pronger (7 years at 5.0m)
8-Nov-10: re-signed Claude Giroux (3 years at 3.75m)
13-Nov-10: re-signed Jeff Carter (11 years at 5.25m)
23-Jun-11: signed Ilya Bryzgalov (9 years at 5.67m)
30-Aug-11: re-signed James van Riemsdyk (6 years at 4.25m)
9-Nov-11: re-signed Braydon Coburn (4 years at 4.5m)
6-Apr-12: re-signed Nicklas Grossmann (4 years at 3.5m)
26-Jul-12: re-signed Jakub Voracek (4 years at 4.25m)
15-Aug-12: re-signed Wayne Simmonds (6 years at 4.0m)
20-Aug-12: re-signed Scott Hartnell (6 years at 4.75m)
28-Jun-13: signed Mark Streit (4 years at 5.25m)
2-Jul-13: signed Vincent Lecavalier (5 years at 4.5m)
5-Jul-13: re-signed Claude Giroux (8 years at 8.25m)
this is were the real problems stem from, even though they found a way to rid themselves of the Bryzgalov contract. That Pronger +35 contract came back to haunt them and signing a bottom-pairing defenseman like Grossmann to that term and number is bad business. Going for Streit and Lecavalier was also not that smart. Found a way to offload the Carter and JVR contracts, but Schenn has a pretty similar contract to JVR anyway ... now they are stuck with paying a bottom-pairing like Schenn-Grossmann a combined 7.1m per year until 2016. No issues with the Voracek, Simmonds and Hartnell contracts though.
As others have pointed out, that Pronger injury really sent them on a downward spiral.
