Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I like that they are sheltering the young guys to start the season. No need to throw them into the fire, let them develop and grow into good NHL players.

What do we gain from throwing them out there against the Sedins and having them get hemmed in their own zone for 2 minutes.

A little more PP time would be good but 5 vs 5 I think they are handling them correctly.

I agree. Last season when Baertschi was on the 4th line with scrubs I was upset, and happy when they finally sent him down. I have no problem with Baertschi and Monahan getting sheltered 3rd line minutes, and Stempniak looks like a good fit with them. I'd like to see them get more PP time, but I'm sure that will come as the season progresses.

As far as Street goes, keep in mind he has over 200 games of professional hockey under his belt. He obviously doesn't have the same upside as the Sven/Mono, but I think he's more mentally prepared to play the tougher minutes. I'm not sure why he's getting so much powerplay time though.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Hartley is using more or less the same sorts of 'junior coaching tactics' that Brent favoured:

Hard forecheck, hard packpressure, stick to your assignments in the defensive end, don't turn the puck over in the neutral zone and attack as a 4 man unit transitioning over the blueline. The strong side defender pinches when he has support from the strong side winger.

Hartley has larger gaps between forward and defense and has his guys giving up more defensive zone real-estate, but I don't think things are radical. Hartley pushes the tempo whereas Brent favours containment. Over the balance of the season I think you'd see that rifling the puck up the boards to a charging winger is slightly less effective overall than breaking out as a unit, but, odd-man rushes are exciting, consistently enveloping the puck in the neutral and defensive zones is not.

Things like lazy changes, lazy backchecks, button hooks and drop passes probably aren't in either coaches' playbook.

Definitely not. 1 man deep on the forecheck, dump the puck up the boards at all times in the neutral zone, Tanguay on the point for the PP (both are guilty of this), and strict adherance to a certain d-pairing are all things that can and have been changed.

Glencross is still doing the drop passes. I've got no issue saying Iginla was part of the issue, but he wasn't the sole cause of it either. Anyone patting themselves on the back for saying a rebuild was necessary years ago has to agree. The only remote shot the Flames had at the cup (2008-2009) was cut down by both injuries and cap mismanagement.

Given that Hartley only had Kiprusoff at his disposal for half a season, I like what I see.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Jacques Cloutier isn't the right guy... he runs the defence, and so far, I haven't been impressed.

What exactly did you expect out of that group of D or that group of forwards supporting the D, for that matter? Seriously.

This team is either going to push forward and give up opportunities or lock it down and get none.....I'll take 5-4 please.

[dino7c]

anyone who looks at the roster and has the nerve to blame the coaching staff for results so far needs to give their heads a shake

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

When did Ben Street become a NHL player?

And on the PP and in the top 9.

Street is just getting the opportunity with Stajan being hurt, and Colborne not quite being ready for the top 9 yet since he didn't start the season here.

Recall that Colborne actually got the first shot at centering Jones-Glencross and didn't have a great start and looked a little lost.

They didn't want to break up the Backlund Line, and are keeping Baertschi/Monahan line together in order to give them sheltered 5 v 5 minutes.

Fact is he was the best option to center that line 5 on 5.

As for the PP time I don't really understand that. he shouldn't be on the ice during PPs.

Once Stajan is healthy and if Monahan is able to stick, then Street is likely back to the AHL.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Hartley is using more or less the same sorts of 'junior coaching tactics' that Brent favoured...

You are probably right. Brent's style would be very effective for this team, although Ibelieve Hartley is a better choice because of his effectiveness as a motivator. I always get the impression that his players will walk through walls for him, and this is a skill that I don't think B Sutter ever really possessed.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I get that some people will continue to say it's mainly his fault, that's a fair opinion to have, but it's old and tired. I think teams have to completely re-adjust their strategy against the Flames now that he's gone.

I also think my Bouwmeester point stands. The guy has an absolute muffin of a shot, so teams were able to cheat a forward on his side a lot of the time. Teams also knew he was guaranteed to be paired with Butler before Hartley became coach.

The much more logical (and probably correct) conclusion is that the Flames had become very predictable and stale running their offense through Iginla. Shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames. They have a much more balanced attack now.

No need to keep taking digs at the guy, he's gone and people need to give it up.

I was an Iggy fan like most, but it was clear to me that the team took on the personality of the captain over the last few years and that got to be an issue when Iggy started to play a perimeter game, stopped finishing checks and curled away on the forecheck as he'd come prone to do. When's guy is known as a leader on the ice as opposed to a vocal guy in the room, that lack of effort and passion is effort is going to manifest itself through the line-up.

I just look at the new Captains comments after the game last night. Gio talked about how it was terrible to give away 2 points to a divisional rival. In the Iggy era, you heard lots of fluff about how you always hate to lose and they'd like to have that one back and how they just have to focus on the next one. No passion or feeling, unlike Gio who comes across much more like a guy who buys into what the coach is preaching and is going to challenge his teammates to step up.

I have no delusions that the Flames are going to keep up this performance, but I'm heartened to see leadership on this team that will lend itself to a clear change in culture.

In Iggy's defense, I do think that players have a shelf life in a city before they become complacent and comfortable. For his own good, he should have moved years ago. Unfortunately, both him and the organization were too complacent. Had they done something 3 years ago, Iggy'd likely have his cup and the Flames would be in much better shape.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I like that they are sheltering the young guys to start the season. No need to throw them into the fire, let them develop and grow into good NHL players.

What do we gain from throwing them out there against the Sedins and having them get hemmed in their own zone for 2 minutes.

A little more PP time would be good but 5 vs 5 I think they are handling them correctly.

Agree. I'd rather he shelter Monahan and Bart with an avergage of 12 minutes per game over an 82 game schedule as opposed to giving them 20 minutes per night for 60 games and then seem get season ending surgery that has them miss next years training camp and the beginning of the season. All you have to does look up north and see how tough the NHL is on extremely talented guys who aren't men yet.

[Itse]

The noise-to-signal ratio of this site is getting unbearable. First week of the rebuild and it seems like we're counting days to the first full-blown CP implosion.

[djsFlames]

Yes.

/endthread

[Henry Fool]

Looks better than I thought it would so far. Positive outlook, mistakes aside.

They're going to allow a lot of goals. They have a bottom-3 lineup and even for a poor lineup they lack shutdown. If they got a time machine to the 90's and abducted Scotty Bowman and Dominik Hasek, they'd still allow a lot of goals.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Hartley is using more or less the same sorts of 'junior coaching tactics' that Brent favoured

I disagree.

By my eye Hartley has much faster up-ice movement, significantly more maintained possession in the neutral-offensive zone transfer (AKA less dump-and-chase), and he generally doesn't deploy his fourth line when the other team ices the puck (or is blessed with an O-zone faceoff).

[CGY12]

My only question about Hartley is how he is handling Sven. Does the kid need work? Yes but in my opinion he isn't being utilized effectively. Of course he is going to make mistakes defensively but you have to put the guy out there in offensive situations. He isn't getting enough time on the PP and I don't think he's got 1 shift in the 2 overtime games the team has played.

[Corral]

If you want this team to have success in the NHL - it needs the respect of NHL players, coaches and management. Frequent coaching changes do little to garner that respect. Hartley stays.

And on that note, the need for respect is why I think the Flames brought in Burke.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by CGY12

My only question about Hartley is how he is handling Sven. Does the kid need work? Yes but in my opinion he isn't being utilized effectively. Of course he is going to make mistakes defensively but you have to put the guy out there in offensive situations. He isn't getting enough time on the PP and I don't think he's got 1 shift in the 2 overtime games the team has played.

He has used Sven fine imo. He even had him shoot first in the shootout.

[worth]

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[irrevocable]

I think we need to give Hartley a full season. I hope he doesn't become the scapegoat for the woes of our beloved Flames. With Burke, Feaster, Weisbrod, and Hartley on board--I feel hopeful for our future moving forward. You can't teach passion or solidarity towards hockey, individual players, or the concept and culture of a team.

Growing pains are a natural process. Hartley isn't even within the top 10 issues this team has.

Can't wait to see this season unfold.

[MisterJoji]

3 games is an extremely small sample size, but getting 66% of a possible 6 points works out to a 109 point season. That's a success no matter who's on your team. With our collection of players, that is a unanimous Jack Adams for Hartley. Love the way he has the guys playing, total team approach, tight-knit group. If we had slightly better than mediocre goaltending we'd easily be 3-0.

[bluck]

I like the start that we have had obviously and as everyone keeps saying thats a 109 point pace. TERRIFIC. Chances of that happening? Extremely slim. We are playing an exciting brand of hockey and you can tell the guys are busting their ass; however, when the message of "work" falls on deaf ears.. and it will.. then we will truly see how he handles this team.

[MissAvery16]

Yes. This team actually has a pulse now.