Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think Hartley will survive this year and then be replaced by Ron Wilson or Marc Crawford.

Neither of those guys is probably going to coach in the NHL again, and neither of them are going to get a coaching job with a rebuilding team.

Wilson was fired by Burke because he was frankly a disaster who's only success cam when he was coaching a hideously talented San Jose team.

Crawford has seen the game pass him by.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Iggy was the captain (the others weren't) and the team generally follows the captain's lead. If the captain doesn't buy in, neither will the rest of the team. Iggy just did his own thing, no matter what the coach wanted.

Fortunately this team now has a new captain and he is playing the way the coach wants.... and the rest of the team is following his lead.

I get that some people will continue to say it's mainly his fault, that's a fair opinion to have, but it's old and tired. I think teams have to completely re-adjust their strategy against the Flames now that he's gone.

I also think my Bouwmeester point stands. The guy has an absolute muffin of a shot, so teams were able to cheat a forward on his side a lot of the time. Teams also knew he was guaranteed to be paired with Butler before Hartley became coach.

The much more logical (and probably correct) conclusion is that the Flames had become very predictable and stale running their offense through Iginla. Shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames. They have a much more balanced attack now.

No need to keep taking digs at the guy, he's gone and people need to give it up.

[ricardodw]

When did Ben Street become a NHL player?

And on the PP and in the top 9.

Street is getting the same ice time as Monahan and Baertschi.


Hartley is basically riding his top 6 veteran forwards Hudler, Stempniak, Glencross, Backlund, Jones and Galliardi all have 18 minutes plus.


Then Baertschi , Monahan and Street are getting 12 minutes. Colborne, Bouma and McGratton are getting very limited time .... even for a 4th line.

may as well move Monahan back to juniors if they are not going to stress him at this level. It as though Hartley figures that Baertschi and Monahan are not handling the ice time he is giving them.

Last year he went with Begin as his pet... This year, so far, it is Street.



Hartley is coaching like this is the playoffs. Maybe he has been told that he has 10 or 20 games and better be over 500.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Haven't seen this in the thread yet, but Hartley seemed to really turn Bouwmeester's career around. He was a HUGE disappointment in his first years here under Brent, and as soon as Hartley steps in, Bouwmeester was actually awesome. That was a complete 180.

Ditto for Stajan.

There is also nothing wrong with bringing up the rookies slowly. Hartley is forcing them to compete every night for every minute they get, while balancing playing the vets and not eroding their trade value. That is a tight-rope act if I have ever seen one.

He is going a LONG way to changing the culture on this team. Like I said earlier, he has just the right mix of being a hard-nosed coach forcing them to play hard all the time, and being a player's coach who is positive and supportive. It is the best way to bring up rookies in the lineup, making them accountable for their play, forcing them to compete for minutes, but also sheltering them and supporting their development.

Didn't work out so well for the first-overalls up north when they were just given top line minutes and PP time right off the bat. However, I have no doubt that the minutes for the rookies won't increase as time goes by. Nothing wrong with making them consistently earn it.

Defence is pretty bad. They have Wideman playing the most physical he probably has in years as a symptom of how soft they are at the moment. I like Russel, and he is fights out there, but he is still small. Brodie is not physical. Giordano can only do so much (and he so far is playing close to the best he has in his entire career). Definitely an incompetent bottom pairing.

On top of this, the Flames are forced to see what they have in Ramo (who some people are saying he sucks, but that is WAY too premature) without having a decent #1 to start with and take the pressure off. I bet that in 10-15 games, Ramo will be much stronger. The guy is still adjusting. Once he is more adjusted, I hope Berra plays himself up to the Flames and they can see who they have in him a bit more too. This is a rebuild year, and this is the time the Flames should be seeing what they have in all their positions, not doing something full-######ed and going out signing available goalies. Ramo may indeed be a very solid netminder. Berra too! They aren't at the moment, and the Flames have 4 of a possible 6 points against:

1) A team that boasts one of the most potent offences in the league
2) Another team with a high-octane offence who they have always had trouble against
3) Another team that was very well known last year as being very hard-working with better talent.

Funny how suddenly Hartley is the problem.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I get that some people will continue to say it's mainly his fault, that's a fair opinion to have, but it's old and tired. I think teams have to completely re-adjust their strategy against the Flames now that he's gone.

I also think my Bouwmeester point stands. The guy has an absolute muffin of a shot, so teams were able to cheat a forward on his side a lot of the time. Teams also knew he was guaranteed to be paired with Butler before Hartley became coach.

The much more logical (and probably correct) conclusion is that the Flames had become very predictable and stale running their offense through Iginla. Shut down Iginla, shut down the Flames. They have a much more balanced attack now.

No need to keep taking digs at the guy, he's gone and people need to give it up.

Fair points also but I also think that the biggest contributing factor to the current Flames success is the overwhelming change in culture. Its been a long time since I've watched a Flames team play with such determination and tenacity. They're skating the whole 60 minutes and frankly, in a large part of the games played, have totally out worked the opposition.

This is because the coach is now allowed to be the coach. He lays down the plan and the whole team follows. He's got them playing an exciting brand of hockey. We may not (and probably most likely won't) win more games than we lose but if they keep playing the way they are, we may become a contender sooner than a lot of people (me included) thought.

[GirlySports]

this is CP. when the Flames crush Les Habitants on Wednesday, Hartley will be a Jack Adams candidate.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

this is CP. when the Flames crush Les Habitants on Wednesday, Hartley will be a Jack Adams candidate.

This is CP... No Jack Adams for Hartley if some players make mistakes. We can be a tough crowd to please.

[SHOGUN]

Jacques Cloutier isn't the right guy... he runs the defence, and so far, I haven't been impressed.

[Robbob]

This thread makes way more sense if you come in with the mindset that the premise to be successful in the NHL is that you must lose in regulation and make every attempt not to collect points.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

this is CP. when the Flames crush Les Habitants on Wednesday, Hartley will be a Jack Adams candidate.

If the season ended today, he'd probably win it. I can't believe anyone has a problem with the way he's gotten this team to play coming out of the gate.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

When did Ben Street become a NHL player?

And on the PP and in the top 9.

Street is getting the same ice time as Monahan and Baertschi.

I wish. He got 18 minutes yesterday compared to Monahan's 13 minutes.

I suppose a large part of that is because Street was essentially replacing Stajan in the top 6 but yesterday just seemed like the perfect opportunity to see what Baertschi and Monahan have to give. Glencross was one of the few players that looked like crap and Street isn't an NHL top 6 player, that line should have had their time cut in favour of Baertschi and Monahan. Not a ton, but a minute or two less and maybe some of their time on the PP and I would have been super happy.

It just seemed same old same old. Team is younger, but vets get preference.

[browna]

Short answer, no. He's not the ideal coach. He was brought it by his buddy Jay to get the last out of the vets. I doubt the plan was to have those vets around for just one year, but here we are.

From all accounts, he's not so much a teaching coach. Brent Sutter would be better for this team probably now, but that ship has sailed.

I am sure Hartley is pressing them hard through camp, and also early in the season. Plus the early season energy and tenacity has them looking pretty good. That said, they've blown multigoal leads in the back half or back third of games. Fitness? Coaching?

Depending on how he's pressing them, once that initial season energy wears out in the next few weeks, and he's still pressing them as hard as he is now, we'll see game by game how the team as a whole and individuals, respond.

[GirlySports]

Monahan still looks pretty weak. I don't think he can handle more than 13 minutes. And if they give Sven more, they'll have to break them up.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Monahan still looks pretty weak. I don't think he can handle more than 13 minutes. And if they give Sven more, they'll have to break them up.

I agree. I thought Ben Street has done a great job going against the other teams best players. I believe they are trying to give Monahan somewhat sheltered minutes. He is three games into a pro career and not even 19 yet. I would imagine if he sticks with the club those minutes will increase.

[Flash Walken]

Agree with Browna.

He may not be the 'right' coach, but I don't think he's the 'wrong' one either.

Best probably would have been Brent, but Hartley is here and has them playing an up-tempo 'team' game which is 50 percent more than he delivered last year with just an 'up-tempo' game.

Amazing to not see lazy fata'ing line changes all the time.

[SuperMatt18]

I like that they are sheltering the young guys to start the season. No need to throw them into the fire, let them develop and grow into good NHL players.

What do we gain from throwing them out there against the Sedins and having them get hemmed in their own zone for 2 minutes.

A little more PP time would be good but 5 vs 5 I think they are handling them correctly.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Fair points also but I also think that the biggest contributing factor to the current Flames success is the overwhelming change in culture. Its been a long time since I've watched a Flames team play with such determination and tenacity. They're skating the whole 60 minutes and frankly, in a large part of the games played, have totally out worked the opposition.

This is because the coach is now allowed to be the coach. He lays down the plan and the whole team follows. He's got them playing an exciting brand of hockey. We may not (and probably most likely won't) win more games than we lose but if they keep playing the way they are, we may become a contender sooner than a lot of people (me included) thought.

I agree with you here.

I also think Brent was allowed to coach his way just as much as Hartley is. The goals against category under Brent was drastically improved in his first season after Keenan was canned (5th), which suggests to me that the team did, in fact, buy into the way he was coaching them to play. Sutter even admitted he had the team focusing too much on defense (Bouwmeester's numbers being a prime example)

The real culture change, IMO, was Feaster admitting a rebuild was late/inevitable and moving out pieces that should have been moved multiple seasons ago. Again, some will see Iginla being traded as addition by subtraction. I maintain the organization's message to both their fans and players grew stale and that's not something I can pin on Iginla alone. Ownership needed a dose of "intellectual honesty"

I don't understand the opinion of Brent being the best coach for a rebuild. His Devils teams weren't young. He's best served coaching junior hockey imo.

[Poe969]

For THIS team he is. I don't want him coaching the team when they're actually going to be a good team.

[Flash Walken]

Hartley is using more or less the same sorts of 'junior coaching tactics' that Brent favoured:

Hard forecheck, hard packpressure, stick to your assignments in the defensive end, don't turn the puck over in the neutral zone and attack as a 4 man unit transitioning over the blueline. The strong side defender pinches when he has support from the strong side winger.

Hartley has larger gaps between forward and defense and has his guys giving up more defensive zone real-estate, but I don't think things are radical. Hartley pushes the tempo whereas Brent favours containment. Over the balance of the season I think you'd see that rifling the puck up the boards to a charging winger is slightly less effective overall than breaking out as a unit, but, odd-man rushes are exciting, consistently enveloping the puck in the neutral and defensive zones is not.

Things like lazy changes, lazy backchecks, button hooks and drop passes probably aren't in either coaches' playbook.

[19Yzerman19]

... They have 4 of 6 possible points. For the record, that is a 109 point pace. Not that that means anything because it's only 3 games, but how the hell do you manage to complain when your team was universally predicted to be in the league basement and they start like this?