Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

I'm interested in how the Flames plan to implement the new building into the surrounding area. Will be be built with vast parking lots around it or will be be more like the stadiums built in NYC, Vancouver and Toronto. No surface parking, more integrated into the surrounding community. More like a commercial building downtown. Does anyone know if NYC, Vancouver or Toronto have public underground parking? Or do you have to walk or take transit?

I like the idea of a more integrated building, less surface parking, numerous underground stalls. Obviously substantially more expensive to build, but it would free up additional space around the stadiums for restaurants, hotels and an entertainment district. The revenues from those developments would easy offset the underground parking costs.

Spit balling ideas...

No real above ground parking in Toronto outside of the ACC. I actually don't know what the parking situation is there, but the ACC is suround by highway and other DT buildings and the train station. I just assumed they have underground parking but I don't know.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Well the Mayor has certainly said there's no public money coming. Redford and the province are in a tight situation and have accepted unscrupulous donations from Katz meaning that they're politically restrained from providing money. So my question is, if that's the case, where is the public money coming from?

Harper was lambasted for offering up money for the Quebec City arena, he wont dip his toe in that pool for some time.

There's no money without a successful Olympic bid.

The Mayor hasn't said there is no money, he said “I’m open to conversation but I don’t believe in public money subsidizing private profit in general. It will be hard to convince me it’s a good use of public money.”

You don't win the Olympics and then go out and find funding though.

[Tinordi]

I'm sure the Flames owners would like to have access to public funds, but they aren't about to sit in an old building that doesn't allow them to maximize revenue streams for another 20 years simply because Calgary isn't hosting an Olympics. Thinking that will happen (not you, but Tinordi) is ridiculous.

The economic arguments of a huge capital investment for minimal marginal revenue and with escalating marginal costs (salaries) would dictate otherwise. There's a reason why private money isn't building stadiums, it's because it's uneconomic to do so.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Barnes

The Mayor hasn't said there is no money, he said “I’m open to conversation but I don’t believe in public money subsidizing private profit in general. It will be hard to convince me it’s a good use of public money.”

You don't win the Olympics and then go out and find funding though.

Sure, you get public funding contingent on winning the Olympics, what I said above.

[rayne008]

So is the area 2 blocks north of the current Saddledome out of the picture?

I figured this may be automatic with the ability to incorporate a football stadium and arena, as well as built in underground transit? Add in the all ready announced entertainment district, it really makes sense...

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would they not get public money for a rink? They will get some, precident has been set, you can take that to the bank.

I must have missed this, what precedent? You mean the city money that went towards the Edmonton arena? I don't think you can hold Calgary to such a precedent, its a different council.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by rayne008

So is the area 2 blocks north of the current saddle dome out of the picture?

I figured this may be automatic with the ability to incorporate a football stadium and arena, as well as built in underground transit? Add in the all ready announced entertainment district, it really makes sense...

Not at all! That's the East Village area, one of the two most likely locations. I would absolutely not be surprised if that's where the new stadium goes, but the city would have a little more balance were it to be placed in West Village.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I must have missed this, what precedent? You mean the city money that went towards the Edmonton arena? I don't think you can hold Calgary to such a precedent, its a different council.

City's are funded and part of the Provincial jurisdiction. While I don't dissagree there will be "political" posturing and debates at the council level, anyone who thinks the two cities will end up with drastically different deals are fooling themselves.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

City's are funded and part of the Provincial jurisdiction. While I don't dissagree there will be "political" posturing and debates at the council level, anyone who thinks the two cities will end up with drastically different deals are fooling themselves.

Are you kidding? Because Edmonton signs the mother of all bad deals to pay for a billionaires revenue stream somehow Calgary has to as well?

I guess the words of the mayor don't matter either? Where Nenshi said he doesn't think it's appropriate to use public money for private profit?

Weird, asinine, baseless conclusions you're drawing.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Are you kidding? Because Edmonton signs the mother of all bad deals to pay for a billionaires revenue stream somehow Calgary has to as well?

I guess the words of the mayor don't matter either? Where Nenshi said he doesn't think it's appropriate to use public money for private profit?

Weird, asinine, baseless conclusions you're drawing.

Yup, there's no way that the City of Calgary is going to give such a bad deal as the Oilers got.

Like I mentioned, the city may create a CRL and pay for some infrastructure upgrades related to the project, but they aren't going to give the Flames' owners a zero interest loan, then make all of the payments on the loan for the owners, and not own a dime of the building - which is what Edmonton's council essential gave Katz.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Are you kidding? Because Edmonton signs the mother of all bad deals to pay for a billionaires revenue stream somehow Calgary has to as well?

I guess the words of the mayor don't matter either? Where Nenshi said he doesn't think it's appropriate to use public money for private profit?

Weird, asinine, baseless conclusions you're drawing.

I know you don't want the city to fund any part of the rink, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

At the end of the day, the new arena project will occure, and the level of public funding received will be in the same ball park as the deal up north.........just how these things will work out. Not much happens here or there that doesn't mirror each other when it comes to public funding. If you are still holding on to some hope that the public funds won't get used for this project because you don't want it to happen, you have your head firmly up your butt.

[_Q_]

I think I speak for several on this board by saying, what is a CRL and how does it work?

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I know you don't want the city to fund any part of the rink, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

At the end of the day, the new arena project will occure, and the level of public funding received will be in the same ball park as the deal up north.........just how these things will work out. Not much happens here or there that doesn't mirror each other when it comes to public funding. If you are still holding on to some hope that the public funds won't get used for this project because you don't want it to happen, you have your head firmly up your butt.

Can't see Edwards et al having anymore of an appetite than Katz to pay for an arena out of their own pockets.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I know you don't want the city to fund any part of the rink, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

At the end of the day, the new arena project will occure, and the level of public funding received will be in the same ball park as the deal up north.........just how these things will work out. Not much happens here or there that doesn't mirror each other when it comes to public funding. If you are still holding on to some hope that the public funds won't get used for this project because you don't want it to happen, you have your head firmly up your butt.

Laugh, you're only argument is that Edmonton did it so therefore Calgary must.

I'm telling you that it is not going to happen that way.

And that it's the reason for the now 4 year delay in announcing the new arena. The Flames have been going to the well but it's been dry.

Which is why the Olympic bid rumours are eminently believable. It's the last good hook to pry public money to pay for the arena.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think I speak for several on this board by saying, what is a CRL and how does it work?

A Community Revitalization Levy funded the East village, if that helps.

Essentially, the city would fund a loan to build infrastructure, and the loan would be paid back by the future property tax growth in the area surrounding.

For example, if the arena is built in the west village using CRL money, you would see hotels and condos, etc growing up around the new arena, which would mean that more property taxes would be earned in the area. The property tax increase in the area pays back the loan.

The structure is useful for areas that are tough to get to redevelop without public help - such and East Village was, and West Village will be.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I hope we'll hear something about this after the election, and in the 2013 calendar year. Probably not though. So frustrating.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I hope we'll hear something about this after the election, and in the 2013 calendar year. Probably not though. So frustrating.

At the STH event I attended at the end of May, that's what King said was the time frame for a public announcement. After the election but before the end of the year.

[TurnedTheCorner]

My expectations remain extremely low.

[Calgary4LIfe]

There will definitely be public money going into it. The % is the real unknown. Putting it behind an Olympic bid (I can't think of a stronger city in Canada to host the next winter games really) would guarantee a large portion. If no Olympic bid, then of course it would be much smaller.

I haven't heard of this yet, and it really may not be feasible, but what about a joint-partnership with the Flames and some of the Flames' owners' respective companies? For instance, CNR dumps some money as an investment into the building, and the Flames slowly 'buy back' a portion every year? Tough to do with publicly traded companies, and it may be more feasible to look at real-estate related companies. Probably not a realistic option anyways, as I doubt it ever gets approved by respective boards, not to mention shareholders.

Either way, it will get built, and it will be $%$#% better than Edmonton's building for sure!

[Enoch Root]

It will get built. There will be some public funding.

And it will be announced before the end of this hockey season.

(predictions, not statements of fact)