Then you are nothing more than narrow-minded and guilty of stereotyping.
Something so many of the "enlightened" regularly say about the right.
Ironic.
That would be true if it wasn't based on repeated actions from the GOP. Counter the point he made about the front runners of the GOP, too bad that's harder than just making accusations.
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When you do a signature and don't attribute it to anyone, it's yours. - Vulcan
To the GOP's credit, a big chunk of the senior leadership does not want this at all. It is all on the tea party members. The problem for them is that they failed to keep control over their party a few years ago in their greed to regain power. They allowed and in many cases welcomed the Tea Party with open arms and now they are paying for that folly. This does nothing but hurt the GOP and Boehner, McCain etc know this and are likely seething over it. Boehner is in a tough spot, he doesn't like this but has to speak on behalf of the house GOP who clearly do want it.
Clinton, ever the astute politician, is exactly correct. No matter how tough it is, the democrats and Obama have to stand firm. Let the civil war in the GOP take place and let them potentially destroy the party. It's clear that party needs to be burned to the ground in order to once again be effective.
To the above...yes it is a major thing to swap out. It is the underpinning of the entire ACA. It is the underpinning on what Obama campaigned and got elected on. If he gives in he has wasted his entire presidency and he is in fact a weak president. this is the time he needs to be strong. The polls show that the majority of americans blame this on the GOP and the tea party. Those that don't are people who simply refuse to blame the GOP for anything.
Also keep in mind that funding the ACA isn't actually involved in the government funding but the tea party is trying any means to undercut it by trying to throw these things into this completely unrelated to Obamacare bill. It is political grandstanding that is going to cost the country billions and hurt millions of people. They had their chance to eliminate Obamacare but couldn't do it because they were not given a mandate to do so at the time and because the court cases didn't work in their favour. They lost. Time to move on and time to actually do some work.
Last edited by ernie; 10-01-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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To the GOP's credit, a big chunk of the senior leadership does not want this at all. It is all on the tea party members. The problem for them is that they failed to keep control over their party a few years ago in their greed to regain power. They allowed and in many cases welcomed the Tea Party with open arms and now they are paying for that folly. This does nothing but hurt the GOP and Boehner, McCain etc know this and are likely seething over it. Boehner is in a tough spot, he doesn't like this but has to speak on behalf of the house GOP who clearly do want it.
Clinton, ever the astute politician, is exactly correct. No matter how tough it is, the democrats and Obama have to stand firm. Let the civil war in the GOP take place and let them potentially destroy the party. It's clear that party needs to be burned to the ground in order to once again be effective.
To the above...yes it is a major thing to swap out. It is the underpinning of the entire ACA. It is the underpinning on what Obama campaigned and got elected on. If he gives in he has wasted his entire presidency and he is in fact a weak president. this is the time he needs to be strong. The polls show that the majority of americans blame this on the GOP and the tea party. Those that don't are people who simply refuse to blame the GOP for anything. Also keep in mind that funding the ACA isn't actually involved in the government funding but the tea party is trying any means to undercut it by trying to throw these things into the government funding bill. It is political grandstanding that is going to cost the country billions and hurt millions of people.
This is exactly what I was saying, in a much clearer form.
I am astounded they were actually stupid enough to let the shutdown happen.
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"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
Money won't keep flowing unless they keep winning (at least the mid-term elections).
If 2014 doesn't go the way of 2010, I think there will be a big shift in the direction the money is willing to go. If it does, and they gain ground, then you are right, it will likely never change.
+1 for this.
Didn't a huge % of the money spent on the last elections by GOP superpacs not work in their favour? i.e. they didn't get most of the upsets they wanted and wasted bootloads of money?
Not to mention the example of the bridge to Michigan (which may be an example of how money does work, because they still only voted 67% or something for the Free bridge)
Also, I know congress works during a shutdown, they vote to get the government up and running, but it is bull they don't take a pay cut
The funny thing about Obamacare is that a few studies have shown great support for each individual idea among the public including republican voters unless you mention "Obamacare" at which point the support drops to nothing on the republican voter side. It just illustrates the lack of knowledge in the voting base and how a very large chunk of the public just listens to their own selected sound bites. Very few people actually understand what is in Obamacare.....heck I know several people I work with that are vehemently against it. Yet they gladly take advantage of some of the things that have already gone into effect not knowing it is Obamacare. It's quite hilarious.
I work for the post office and we're working today but I'm off. No national wildlife refuges for me today though. National parks are closed.
The po's financial crisis is looming as well. According to our Postmaster General, by next week we will only have a few days' worth of operating cash.
We don't (directly) get any money from the gov't, so the shutdown doesn't affect us. But, we have heard that if Congress doesn't do something about the po soon we may not get paid...eventually.
That whole discussion is such a convoluted bunch of crap that I no longer know who to believe. Supposedly the po is now in a couple billion bucks more debt than they thought .
As for the Obamacare stuff-the lack of knowledge is hilarious. I'm no expert on it, but some of the arguments there are pretty silly.
The funny thing about Obamacare is that a few studies have shown great support for each individual idea among the public including republican voters unless you mention "Obamacare" at which point the support drops to nothing on the republican voter side. It just illustrates the lack of knowledge in the voting base and how a very large chunk of the public just listens to their own selected sound bites. Very few people actually understand what is in Obamacare.....heck I know several people I work with that are vehemently against it. Yet they gladly take advantage of some of the things that have already gone into effect not knowing it is Obamacare. It's quite hilarious.
The best part is the first chubby blonde woman was in the audience that night. Not sure what took place during the commercial break following this, but she stormed out apparently.
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When you do a signature and don't attribute it to anyone, it's yours. - Vulcan
It's always nice every few months for the American government to remind the world how stunningly incompentent they are. You really in particular have to admire the way the GOP is determined to kill itself or perhaps more aptly have itself killed by the mouth breathers better known as the Tea Party. How does a group that isn't even half of your party run the entire show? Inmates running the asylum to a T.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Guess it's too bad the not conservative Republicans don't have more sway.
Quote:
Obamacare, as President Barack Obama's signature health care plan is known, isn't directly tied to funding the government. But it's so unpopular among the Republican tea party conservatives that they want it undercut, if not outright repealed.
The health care law "is the most insidious law known to man," Republican Rep. Todd Rokita of Indiana said.
White House spokesman Jay Carney told CNN on Tuesday that such intransigence is the root of the shutdown, noting that conservative Republicanssuch as Rokita are the only ones pushing a political agenda for meeting the congressional responsibility of passing a budget.
The issue I have with the law (ACA) is that "we have to pass it to see what's in it" -Pelosi
no, we need to figure out what's best for us. The United States should have some sort of socialized medical plan, with that being said we cant take Sweden's plan because we have more illegal aliens in the US than Sweden has population. We needed both sides to sit down and talk this out.
The Democrats said "they're willing to negotiate" but that pretty much means that you come in and take what they're giving you and no negotiating will be done. The Republicans dont want to go because they know what it is, yet they look like a-holes (because they are) and it makes the whole country look like a bunch of rednecks that argue over mcDonalds.
I'm so fed up with it, SIT DOWN and talk!
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Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
I am confused how illegal aliens impacts socialized health care.
Using the Canadian system as an example, if you don't have a health care card or your number hasn't previously been entered at the clinic/hospital you are at, you can't get service unless it is an emergency (or want to get sent a bill).
It would stand to reason that you can't get a health care card if you are an illegal alien, or that it would be obvious that if that was a concern you could easily add such a condition.
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I am confused how illegal aliens impacts socialized health care.
Using the Canadian system as an example, if you don't have a health care card or your number hasn't previously been entered at the clinic/hospital you are at, you can't get service unless it is an emergency (or want to get sent a bill).
It would stand to reason that you can't get a health care card if you are an illegal alien, or that it would be obvious that if that was a concern you could easily add such a condition.
I was just saying that we cant just use the "sweden model" but we need to take bits of it, German, Canadian ect models to mold our own because we have more illegal aliens than they do citizens.
Basically saying that we cant do it that way because we're not sweden
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Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. --Barry Goldwater November, 1994
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I was just saying that we cant just use the "sweden model" but we need to take bits of it, German, Canadian ect models to mold our own because we have more illegal aliens than they do citizens.
Basically saying that we cant do it that way because we're not sweden
Thanks for clearing that up.
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"Wake up, Luigi! The only time plumbers sleep on the job is when we're working by the hour."
I'm certainly not very bullish on the future of the United States these days. I don't think there are any political leaders in Washington from either party that truly have the best interests of the country at heart. The entire system has become so corrupt and bogged down by lobbyists that it's become impossible for even a well meaning politician to bring about any positive change. And your average American is too busy watching football and stuffing his face with cheap fast food to notice this.
That's why it is imperative for Canada to put great effort into the diversification our portfolio of trading partners in the coming years. There's no way we can fully unhitch our wagon from the US, but any reduction in exposure will be positive.
The issue I have with the law (ACA) is that "we have to pass it to see what's in it" -Pelosi
no, we need to figure out what's best for us. The United States should have some sort of socialized medical plan, with that being said we cant take Sweden's plan because we have more illegal aliens in the US than Sweden has population. We needed both sides to sit down and talk this out.
The Democrats said "they're willing to negotiate" but that pretty much means that you come in and take what they're giving you and no negotiating will be done. The Republicans dont want to go because they know what it is, yet they look like a-holes (because they are) and it makes the whole country look like a bunch of rednecks that argue over mcDonalds.
I'm so fed up with it, SIT DOWN and talk!
Do you honestly believe that the Republican party in its current state will support socialized medicare for everyone? Laughable. There is far too much special interest money floating around with the private medical lobby, they wouldn't dare alienate this group.
Everytime you cast a vote for the Republicans, you support their entire platform and everything they stand for. Not just one issue. The other side might not be perfect, but they are a heck of a lot better.
