Season Kick-off pressers Sept 30. Burke @ 11:45 AM. Feaster @ 1 PM

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I can't believe Feaster made that Baertschi comment to the public. What idiocy.

The kid doesn't need anymore constant negativity. The problem is confidence, not skill (or work ethics as a handful believe).

You gotta feel for him.

Feaster's comments were fine, almost standing up for the kid in a way.

Stating that everybody's expectations on the kid were too high and that he was faced with too much much pressure.

Burke's comments on the other hand , probably a little harsh but hopefully Sven can take the criticism to heart.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He has to compete as hard as Kessel did in Boston when Burke traded 2 firsts adn a 2nd and then signed Kessel to a 5 year 27M deal as a 21 year old???

Kessel had 6.... count them 6 hits in 70 games his last year as a Bruin.


Not that Kessel isn't a great talent he sure as heck does not compete in all 3 zones.

I can't really attest to Kessel's play away from the puck as I don't watch a lot of TO, but hits aren't necessarily a great way to gauge it. Ask Pavol Datsyuk, one of the best two-way players the game has ever seen. I'm not sure I've ever seen him hit someone, but damn can he take the puck away from someone.

Takeaways vs giveaways is a much better stat if you want to rely soley on those.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL if Sven can't take this criticizm I wouldn't want him anywhere near this organization.

I know it's easy for you to take criticism, hiding behind a forum avatar.

But it's been nothing but constant negativity regarding Baertschi these last 3 weeks. I don't care if you think hockey players aren't human (he's TWENTY years old), but this is not EA Sports NHL. Players are not simply statistics. They are not motivated the same way others are motivated.

When Baertschi has confidence, he plays with confidence and plays well. To me, this is just setting up the excuse to send him down to Abbotsford in a week.

[868904]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

They can first put him in a stretching machine to make him 3 inches taller and then get him on the weights and roids and add 20-30 lbs of muscle.


Crap Iginla with his physical tools and gifts could not become a Hossa type player.

Well not a direct physical comparison, more of a skilled scoring winger who is responsible comparison.

Personally I don't like that comparison, but i've seen SVen compared to Hossa lots on the internet.

Maybe a better comparison would be Hakan Loob? Joe Mullen? Good scorers, highly competitive in all 3 zones.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I know it's easy for you to take criticism, hiding behind a forum avatar.

What the hell is that supposed to mean and what does that have to do with this topic? Offer me millions of dollars and I will gladly jump into the public eye to be bashed.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

But it's been nothing but constant negativity regarding Baertschi these last 3 weeks. I don't care if you think hockey players aren't human (he's TWENTY years old), but this is not EA Sports NHL. Players are not simply statistics. They are not motivated the same way others are motivated.

When Baertschi has confidence, he plays with confidence and plays well. To me, this is just setting up the excuse to send him down to Abbotsford in a week.

Constant negativity where? Here? So what. If players turtled everytime they got fan criticizm Matt Stajan would have retired years ago.

There's no excuse to not have him play in Abbotsford if he's not ready and I've been saying that for weeks now.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by 868904

Well not a direct physical comparison, more of a skilled scoring winger who is responsible comparison.

Personally I don't like that comparison, but i've seen SVen compared to Hossa lots on the internet.

Maybe a better comparison would be Hakan Loob? Joe Mullen? Good scorers, highly competitive in all 3 zones.

The ideal would be Parise, but that's a little too much to expect.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I know it's easy for you to take criticism, hiding behind a forum avatar.

But it's been nothing but constant negativity regarding Baertschi these last 3 weeks. I don't care if you think hockey players aren't human (he's TWENTY years old), but this is not EA Sports NHL. Players are not simply statistics. They are not motivated the same way others are motivated.

When Baertschi has confidence, he plays with confidence and plays well. To me, this is just setting up the excuse to send him down to Abbotsford in a week.

They don't need an excuse to send him down if they feel that he should be sent down.

[ricardodw]

based on recent past performance Baertschi has played harder than:

Cammalleri, Hudler, Stempniak, Cervenka, Bouwmeester, Brodie and Tanguay.

Burke is going have a coronary when he fully understands how soft the Feaster Flames have become.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Did you see the young guns years? Savard, Stillman, Iginla, Bure, etc all were allowed to make mistakes and the problem is that they just kept making mistakes and coaches kept getting fired until Darrly Sutter came in and gave Iginla some tough love and brought in a lunch bucket team attitude. The Edmonton treatment hasn't yielded anything except top 10 draft picks one after another. That's not team building, that's bad management.

You just proved my point...No?

Last I looked Iginla developed into a hall of fame hockey player

Stillman was a legit top 6 forward, with multiple 30 goal seasons and 2 Stanley cups

Bure had numerous seasons in which he was a top 6 winger.

Savard, after being buried on the 3rd line/ benched/ scratched etc he traded for garbage had an extremely effective career. In Atlanta he was allowed to play becoming one of the top 10 playmakers in the NHL, helped Atlanta reach playoffs for the first time, and was the #1 center in Boston.

Not to mention only Jarome Iginla (of the players you mentioned) played under Darryl Sutter.

Not sure how you proved your own point there....

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's only because Iginla didn't want to be a Hossa type player.

Everyone wants to be able to skate like Hossa. Why didn't Iginla work on it?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL poor baby Sven. If he can't take a little criticizm the NHL is not for him.

That's such a narrow minded view of things. The guy is 20 years old. How well adjusted were you at 20? How well adjusted is anyone?

The pressure of expectations of an organization, a whole city, millions of dollars is not something that's easy to take. It's easy to say someone should just deal with it, but that's not realistic. You can't just expect some cheese-eating high schooler to be thrown into a situation like that and suddenly become a man. I doubt you would handle it any better. I know I wouldn't.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

You just proved my point...No?

Last I looked Iginla developed into a hall of fame hockey player

Stillman was a legit top 6 forward, with multiple 30 goal seasons and 2 Stanley cups

Bure had numerous seasons in which he was a top 6 winger.

Savard, after being buried on the 3rd line/ benched/ scratched etc he traded for garbage had an extremely effective career. In Atlanta he was allowed to play becoming one of the top 10 playmakers in the NHL, helped Atlanta reach playoffs for the first time, and was the #1 center in Boston.

Not to mention only Jarome Iginla (of the players you mentioned) played under Darryl Sutter.

Not sure how you proved your own point there....

Are we talking individual success or team success here because it sounds to me you want Monahan, Sven, etc to all be handed top 6 minutes even if they don't deserve it that's it's counter productive to team success for the Flames so those players can flourish elsewhere in their careers?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Table 5

That's such a narrow minded view of things. The guy is 20 years old. How well adjusted were you at 20? How well adjusted is anyone?

The pressure of expectations of an organization, a whole city, millions of dollars is not something that's easy to take. It's easy to say someone should just deal with it, but that's not realistic. You can't just expect some cheese-eating high schooler to be thrown into a situation like that and suddenly become a man. I doubt you would handle it any better. I know I wouldn't.

I'm not criticizing Sven for being anything else but a typical 20 year old which is why I've been saying for weeks he needs to go down to Abbotsford play a lot of hockey and get back to having fun. It's going to be miserable for him this season on this bad Flames team if things aren't going well. It's like nobody is listening here as I haven't said once he's a bust and needs to be shopped around. There is no race here to get these kids into the NHL.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Table 5

That's such a narrow minded view of things. The guy is 20 years old. How well adjusted were you at 20? How well adjusted is anyone?

The pressure of expectations of an organization, a whole city, millions of dollars is not something that's easy to take. It's easy to say someone should just deal with it, but that's not realistic. You can't just expect some cheese-eating high schooler to be thrown into a situation like that and suddenly become a man. I doubt you would handle it any better. I know I wouldn't.

I wish I had a Brian Burke in my life at 20 to tell me what I was doing wrong, probably save me a lot of hardship.

These kids have it good, it's up to them to take this constructive criticism and get better from it, not cry and hide.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

based on recent past performance Baertschi has played harder than:

Cammalleri, Hudler, Stempniak, Cervenka, Bouwmeester, Brodie and Tanguay.

Burke is going have a coronary when he fully understands how soft the Feaster Flames have become.

Baertschi hasn't played harder than any of those guys. Baertschi played sheltered minutes. Hudler, Stempniak and Brodie played damn hard last year, much harder than Baertschi for certain. But something you'll notice about your list, three of them are gone and two more will be gone by the end of the year. The management team wants a certain quality of player on this team and Baertschi has to prove he is one of them. You can bet your bottom dollar that if he doesn't get his stuff together he'll be one of those guys that's used to bring in a big name player the team desperately needs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Burke or Feaster have anything to say about Colborne? Where does he fit? Where is he expected to play?

[irrevocable]

Originally Posted by New Era

Burke or Feaster have anything to say about Colborne? Where does he fit? Where is he expected to play?

Burke basically said that Colborne is going to be developed into a useful bottom 6 forward that has a long career in the NHL. Didn't make it sound like he has much hope for untapped potential / top 6.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Husky

Im really tired of these msut compete in all 3 zones talk. Guys like Baertschi game are meant to be developed as offensive game breakers. They arent there to block shots, be defensive leaders etc.

Do you really think guys like Patrick Kane, Stamkos, Girouix, etc are told to be "solid in all 3 zones". No they are told to score. These guys are defensively strong because they play so much offense that the other team struggles to get into the other teams zone.

For guys like baertschi, a good defense should stem from an excellent offensive zone attack.

Amen.

This is not a Brent Sutter team anymore. Let's stop acting like it.

While I think he does need to compete in all zones, that's not what he needs to put all his focus on now. His focus needs to be on developing his offensive tools to make him the offensive impact player that he has the talent to be. Everything else can follow.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by New Era

Burke or Feaster have anything to say about Colborne? Where does he fit? Where is he expected to play?

Feaster said they feel he can develop into a very good 3rd line center.

Thats all I got

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Are we talking individual success or team success here because it sounds to me you want Monahan, Sven, etc to all be handed top 6 minutes even if they don't deserve it that's it's counter productive to team success for the Flames so those players can flourish elsewhere in their careers?

I want both.

By developing elite players you have a better team... They go one in the same.

Stillman won 2 cups, Iggy one Stanley cup finals, and Savard went to multiple playoffs with the Bruins, but due to concussion issues didn't get to win with them. Other then Bure these players found success by being good hockey players.

My question to you is, do you think the Flames are going to win a lot this year?

I don't so I would rather see the team give meaningful minutes to the younger guys (Baertschi, Backlund, Colborne, Brodie), rather then giving drifters (Stajan, Stemp, Hudler) ice time.

Not to mention I don't think Glencross deserves the ice time he gets, he doesn't hit anymore, and he takes numerous dumb penalties. I liked him more when he scored 10-15 as a fiesty third liner that would back check and hit. Not the guy who turned down team Canada (world championship) when he wanted his contract and didn't want to get injured.