[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[moon]

I have a hard time believing that scouts can't see past Monahan being on a bad team. His being on a bad team sucks for him but had little to no impact on him going 6th overall.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by moon

I have a hard time believing that scouts can't see past Monahan being on a bad team. His being on a bad team sucks for him but had little to no impact on him going 6th overall.

Yeah I see what you are saying but the fact remains that of the top 6 picks MacKinnon and Drouin played together, Jones played for a powerhouse team, Barkov and Lindholm played with men.

MacKinnon solidified his position as # 1 due to his playoff/mem cup. Horvat jumped from a 15-20 pick to top 10 because of his playoff performance. Had Monahan made the playoffs and dominated he very well could have been picked ahead of Barkov (as it was clear Florida wanted a C with their pick)

[Enoch Root]

The playoff experience is a good point.

I would add that playing with good players makes you better. Good players push each other and learn together.

I don't think there's any question that playing with good players on a good team and going to the MC would make you a better player.

Also, while the scouts have seen it before, they are human and more points are hard to ignore.

[moon]

I doubt that a play-off run would have done much to change where he was. He was always going to be behind McaKinnon and Drouin, likely behind Barkov in many teams minds because of Barkov playing with men and in the same category as Lindholm and Nichuskin.

I guess he could have played unreal and above what he had shown in the 3+ years before he had been scouted and maybe moved up but that seems highly unlikely.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by moon

I doubt that a play-off run would have done much to change where he was. He was always going to be behind McaKinnon and Drouin, likely behind Barkov in many teams minds because of Barkov playing with men and in the same category as Lindholm and Nichuskin.

I guess he could have played unreal and above what he had shown in the 3+ years before he had been scouted and maybe moved up but that seems highly unlikely.

If he had a player like Drouin on his wing he likely gets 100 points instead of 78. If he does that and goes on to carry his team to the Mem Cup I think he works his way into that top 3 discussion. Doesn't matter it is moot point considering he didn't make the playoffs and was on a horrible team. I for one am ecstatic that he slipped to 6 and we got him.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If he had a player like Drouin on his wing he likely gets 100 points instead of 78. If he does that and goes on to carry his team to the Mem Cup I think he works his way into that top 3 discussion. Doesn't matter it is moot point considering he didn't make the playoffs and was on a horrible team. I for one am ecstatic that he slipped to 6 and we got him.

I guess the difference may be that I think he was in that discussion already. I think there are teams that had him rated hire than Barkov and/or Lindholm. Maybe even some teams that liked him over Drouin.

I am very happy with him at 6 and had him ranked 3rd behind MacKinnon and Drouin in terms of who I wanted. I just don't think that him playing for Ottawa changed where he went and give scouts the benefit of the doubt in being able to figure out that there wasn't much talent around him on that team and that contributed to him having lower numbers than if playing for a London for example.

[Savvy27]

Veteran Flames Horak, Smith know they’re again fighting for spots

“Derek Smith and Roman Horak had it made. They were NHLers.

That was 2011.

Now, two years later, Smith and Horak are hardly locks. Not that they had expected any assurances.That’s a dangerous way to think,” says Smith, who turns 29 on Oct. 13. “There’s always guys pushing for jobs. There’s always people trying to make the team. And guys already on the team are trying to push for more minutes.

“It never ends. Every year it gets tougher and tougher.”

Horak knows where he stands — firmly in the grey area. (Sure, he was handed No. 21 this summer. But that means little. Ask Corban Knight, No. 10 in your program.)

“I’m still here, so I’m happy,” says Horak, 22. “It’s going good for me, but you can obviously count — they still have 16 forwards. I’m just going to do my best to stay here. This year, there’s a bunch of new guys coming in. Sean Monahan’s here. A lot of young guys. It’s different every year. But you do the same thing — work hard, try to impress.”

I think the bold part is very interesting. Horak specifically mentions Monahan and from my reading he makes it seem like the Flames signed Stephen Weiss in the summer or another vet who is simply ahead of him on the depth chart. I find it fascinating because players know who is good out there and who the real threats are to their job security.

As for Smith, I like his game. He would be in my top seven, even top 6 if it weren't for the Flames lack of toughness on the back end. It does seem like a matter of time before he is sent down though.

[PeteMoss]

My final thoughts on this whole Sven drama is this - Feaster shouldn't be calling out players in the media. If we had players calling each other or the coaches out management be going crazy telling him to keep it to himself. If you want to tell the guy something, say it to his face (and I'm sure they have), going to the media does nothing for anyone. We don't get points for having a GM who gives good quotes to the media. Keep it in house.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I always thought Smith was a fantastic 7th defencemen. Was a smart guy out there and regularly skated the puck out of danger often under pressure, and would make a great pass. He even looked decent (not 'great', but decent) when forced to play in the top 4. Was never the same after his ankle injury. Definitely a disappointing season for him last year.

He has looked better out there this year, but still not what he used to be at all. I don't think he ends up making the cut. Hope he does, however. I was really happy with him 2 seasons ago.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My final thoughts on this whole Sven drama is this - Feaster shouldn't be calling out players in the media. If we had players calling each other or the coaches out management be going crazy telling him to keep it to himself. If you want to tell the guy something, say it to his face (and I'm sure they have), going to the media does nothing for anyone. We don't get points for having a GM who gives good quotes to the media. Keep it in house.

I suspect the team has had some very long discussions with Sven about his performance. Feaster making mention of in the media probably has more to do with setting the expectations for the fan base should they have to go down a certain path as a remediation strategy. Can you imagine how badly the fans would lose their soup if Baertschi were sent to the minors?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

I doubt that a play-off run would have done much to change where he was. He was always going to be behind McaKinnon and Drouin, likely behind Barkov in many teams minds because of Barkov playing with men and in the same category as Lindholm and Nichuskin.

I guess he could have played unreal and above what he had shown in the 3+ years before he had been scouted and maybe moved up but that seems highly unlikely.

Moved up? Prior to the season, he was ranked 3rd.

[haiku]

Originally Posted by moon

I doubt that a play-off run would have done much to change where he was. He was always going to be behind McaKinnon and Drouin, likely behind Barkov in many teams minds because of Barkov playing with men and in the same category as Lindholm and Nichuskin.

I guess he could have played unreal and above what he had shown in the 3+ years before he had been scouted and maybe moved up but that seems highly unlikely.

Seth Jones fall to fourth?
the consensus number 1
phhft impossible

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Moved up? Prior to the season, he was ranked 3rd.

I meant moved up from where he went in the draft.

[moon]

Originally Posted by haiku

Seth Jones fall to fourth?
the consensus number 1
phhft impossible

Except Seth Jones wasn't the consensus number 1 and nobody said anything was impossible.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by New Era

I suspect the team has had some very long discussions with Sven about his performance. Feaster making mention of in the media probably has more to do with setting the expectations for the fan base should they have to go down a certain path as a remediation strategy. Can you imagine how badly the fans would lose their soup if Baertschi were sent to the minors?

They are already losing their soup now for no reason. Don't see any benefit to saying it to the media.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My final thoughts on this whole Sven drama is this - Feaster shouldn't be calling out players in the media. If we had players calling each other or the coaches out management be going crazy telling him to keep it to himself. If you want to tell the guy something, say it to his face (and I'm sure they have), going to the media does nothing for anyone. We don't get points for having a GM who gives good quotes to the media. Keep it in house.

Unless you've heard a different interview than I did, Feaster didn't call him out. Feaster was asked directly about Sven and he gave an honest answer that he had an up-and-down camp and there were times that he looked very good, and times that he didn't.

He basically said the same things about Monahan, but for some reason, the narrative seems to be that Sven was disappointing, but Monahan was not.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by getbak

Unless you've heard a different interview than I did, Feaster didn't call him out. Feaster was asked directly about Sven and he gave an honest answer that he had an up-and-down camp and there were times that he looked very good, and times that he didn't.

He basically said the same things about Monahan, but for some reason, the narrative seems to be that Sven was disappointing, but Monahan was not.

Media and fan pressure, it's not easy to go through and I am hoping it makes Sven a lot tougher as person. Iggy had to go through that sort of micro management "more from the fans". Hopefully Sven gives Iggy a call for advice I am sure he would be happy to oblige. I think a lot of it is, Sven in the short time he has played has shown some real talent. I think management just wants him to take the bull by the horns. I think he will if he gets a chance and gets going.

[FAN]

I think that at the beginning of the year, McKinnon and Jones were clearly the top forward and defenseman in the draft and Monahan was in the select group of players that was expected to follow the two in the draft. Obviously, had Monahan played on a better team and got a chance to go head to head against Drouin and McKinnon and won, Monahan might have had a chance to move up, but as it stands, Monahan played on a poor team and didn't get to showcase himself in the WJC the way Lindholm and Barkov did. But there's no point in arguing whether Monahan is a top 3 pick or a top 6 pick. It made little difference. 2013 is considered a deep draft and Monahan is considered a top 5 talent.

[stemit14]

The flames have acquired joe colbourne from Toronto for a 4th round pick in 2014 according to flames.nhl.com. Seems like a good deal for a big centreman from Calgary.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Tomorrow just got more interesting