[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

If he's that fragile, he's done. Also, again, I'm sure the Flames brass and coaching staff have a better handle on things given they are there day in and day out. I'm sure they are also balancing out all these factors.

Exactly. If Baertschi can't handle a demotion he has no hope of ever being a professional hockey player. If he loses all confidence at the first sign of adversity he isn't worth the contract the Flames have given him. He is obviously a young kid and has a lot of maturing to do. Where he should do that maturing is the question.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you ask Marc Savard I'm sure he'll tell you that the time he spent with the Flames under the Gilbert reign of error was probably the best thing for his career. He learned that he has to work hard to earn his position. That was very evident in Boston. Without that lessons he learned here and the change he showed in Atlanta he likely never would have got that chance in Boston.

I am genuinely surprised that a situation where a player became so frustrated with the coach that he demanded a trade and went on to remarkable future success with other franchises, his old team struggled to replace his skill set, and the coach got fired never to return to the NHL would be highlighted as a success.

I think that Savard would probably not say what you think, but, since (handle notwithstanding) I do not know him, I have as much claim to that supposition as you do to yours (none). I can tell you that I asked Craig Button about the situation and he told me that trading Savard instead of firing Gilbert was the biggest mistake of his career.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you ask Marc Savard I'm sure he'll tell you that the time he spent with the Flames under the Gilbert reign of error was probably the best thing for his career. He learned that he has to work hard to earn his position. That was very evident in Boston. Without that lessons he learned here and the change he showed in Atlanta he likely never would have got that chance in Boston.

No doubt that Savard matured as a player after he left Calgary, but I chalk that up to age and overall experience. Iginla and Stillman went through the same process (Iginla in Calgary and Stillman in St. Louis). Some people forget, but Iginla used to spend a lot of time in Brian Sutter's doghouse when he was young.

It's the problem with having a young team and a lot of them go through it. Savard was player that was taught better with a carrot than a stick. I'll never forget how he had a 4 point night and was scratched the next game. In the end, Gilbert never coached in the NHL again, so I think it says a lot about how that tactic works.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Actually, that makes perfect sense if Mac Savard is 20 years old in this example. Why?
- Because whether the Flames play Marc Savard or Clarke Wilm this year, they are still going to miss the playoffs.
- Because letting Marc Savard know that he has to work as hard as possible, will make Marc Savard a much better player in the long run
- Because even though Marc Savard half assing is still better than Clarke Wilm, the Flames will need him to be much better than just Clarke Wilm should Marc Savard ever hope to be a key part of bringing the cup to Calgary down the road.

I get this mindest for sure, but there does have to be a little "special treatment" of highly talented prospects. The assumption is that Baertschi WILL put the effort in when put with better players. Not ideal obviously, but there is no harm in giving him a few games playing with the top minute getters. But really, other than the 4th line, he should have any complaints about the skill level of any players in the top-9

[Henry Fool]

What you can learn from Savard and St Louis is that sometimes it takes years to figure out how to do your best in the NHL - especially if you're a small guy. So, patience.

The discussion has expanded considerably, but what I personally saw and what has been noticed by others that Bärtschi maybe did not play with the level of urgency you'd expect from a 20-year-old at an NHL camp, whether he is a skilled guy or a grinder, first round pick or undrafted. You want to see 100% from a kid like him.

He hasn't played badly. It's not cause for alarm. But I see highly rated prospects on other teams playing harder. Can't pretend that's not the case. It's not about playing defense either. Just full drive, full focus.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I can tell you that I asked Craig Button about the situation and he told me that trading Savard instead of firing Gilbert was the biggest mistake of his career.

I agree with that as well. It was a stupid move. But everything that led up to that, and the trade to Atlanta, changes Savard's attitude. He worked harder and became a better player because of what he went through here.

[MissTeeks]

Pat Steinberg‏@Fan960Steinberg36s

Lower body injury for Baertschi. Minor. Out a couple days. #Flames

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

What you can learn from Savard and St Louis is that sometimes it takes years to figure out how to do your best in the NHL - especially if you're a small guy. So, patience.

The discussion has expanded considerably, but what I personally saw and what has been noticed by others that Bärtschi maybe did not play with the level of urgency you'd expect from a 20-year-old at an NHL camp, whether he is a skilled guy or a grinder, first round pick or undrafted. You want to see 100% from a kid like him.

He hasn't played badly. It's not cause for alarm. But I see highly rated prospects on other teams playing harder. Can't pretend that's not the case. It's not about playing defense either. Just full drive, full focus.

Correct, I don't think I'm wanting as a fan for Sven to layout and block a Weber one timer. I am asking that of Lance Bouma.

Rather I'm saying let's have some patience and trust that the Flames can or will make the best decision for the benefit of Sven, and thus the team. There is more to being an NHL hockey player than just what we see on the ice and it is too much to be asking Sven to have these skills when he is as young as 21. Where he acquires this maturity is the question. I think this will workout very well, because you know if were talking about it, it is issue number 1 in hockey operations.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by New Era

I agree with that as well. It was a stupid move. But everything that led up to that, and the trade to Atlanta, changes Savard's attitude. He worked harder and became a better player because of what he went through here.

Yes but maybe we would have seen that here if the team had shown commitment to him over a crazy coach. Tough to do as no player should be above the team, but you have to do what you can to put these kids in the best position to succeed. Is Baertschi being frustrated with lack of finish and skill from his linemates, right or wrong, best for his development? No probably not.

I do have to say I'm dissapointed with Baertschi's attitude thus far this season though. I remember the way he drove the pace the first time he showed up to prove himself and it was awesome. And now it seems like he's settled into a spot where he feels he's shown enough to at least have a guaranteed spot. But when the team preaches a mantra of earning your spot to give the fresh faces the mindset that they can make the team, it has to flow through everything. I think Baertschi took this message to mean that he was on the team regardless, and has been disappointed that he was thrown back into the mix with every other prospect.

[Firebot]

The Sedins were considered a bust at one point too. It wasn't until after the lockout that they became stars. Baertschi has a similar PPG average at the age of 21 with 25 games, then Henrik Sedin did at the age of 24 playing 4 full seasons and 320 games.

He's 21 and hasn't even played a full NHL season yet...He needs to mature but it will come.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Pat Steinberg‏@Fan960Steinberg36s

Lower body injury for Baertschi. Minor. Out a couple days. #Flames

Oh thank goodness it's just an injury

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Correct, I don't think I'm wanting as a fan for Sven to layout and block a Weber one timer. I am asking that of Lance Bouma.

Rather I'm saying let's have some patience and trust that the Flames can or will make the best decision for the benefit of Sven, and thus the team. There is more to being an NHL hockey player than just what we see on the ice and it is too much to be asking Sven to have these skills when he is as young as 21. Where he acquires this maturity is the question. I think this will workout very well, because you know if were talking about it, it is issue number 1 in hockey operations.

Yeah, it's really not a big deal as far as I can see. Things just begin to look bigger when there's a long discussion.

You want what's best long term, not necessarily what makes a player happiest right now. If Bärtschi feels pressure or isn't entirely comfortable, good, now is the best time to start dealing with those things. Those issues are not going to go away.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Pat Steinberg‏@Fan960Steinberg36s

Lower body injury for Baertschi. Minor. Out a couple days. #Flames

You just stopped this place from crumbling into a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Nice work.

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by strombad

You just stopped this place from crumbling into a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Nice work.

That's what I'm here for!

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

What I mean by that is that he has no place on the roster as a 3rd or 4th liner. He's not suited for the role. He is simply an AHL calliper offensive player. If he cannot play well enough to earn a top 6 spot (which he hasn't in my opinion) then he has no business being on an NHL roster.

You are forgetting a key point, that being your knowledge of Street is lacking.

Street would make a very good bottom 6 player. He is high energy, good defensively, kills penalties and then has the hands to chip in offensively. His only downside is his size and physicality.

[MissTeeks]

Thought this fit here as it was discussed earlier:

John Shannon‏@JSportsnet5m
Take note London and Medicine Hat...just been told Canucks' 1st Rd Picks Horvat and Shinkaruk will start the season in the NHL.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Oh thank goodness it's just an injury

I am more worried that Sven is injury prone. Not that will be sent down to the AHL.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Thought this fit here as it was discussed earlier:

John Shannon‏@JSportsnet5m
Take note London and Medicine Hat...just been told Canucks' 1st Rd Picks Horvat and Shinkaruk will start the season in the NHL.

That tweet makes it seem that they made the team from stellar pre-season play.

Horvat made the team because Schroeder got hurt and is out for 3 weeks.

Schinkaruk had a pretty good camp, but with Booth injured again, and Kassian suspended, they didn't have much choice.

[TurnedTheCorner]

No word on Cammalleri's status for opening day yet? If he's not good to go, with him and Breen going to IR and a goalie being cut only two skaters need to be cut.

I guess we'll know more on Sunday.

[Mango]

Pretty good quotes from Feaster today after an interesting line of questioning.

Listen here: http://downloads.flames.nhl.com/podc...ter_sept27.mp3