Alberta Taxes

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Yeah I don't know many governments that would cut taxes if they had enough, instead they would pay themselves more. It happens all the time.

Good theory, but in practice governments will always want to raise taxes and if they have a windfall they will use it to increase salaries/book hotel floors to the Olympic games and only use 1-2 rooms/take extravagant trips.

Evidence? Because when I google "tax cuts", an awful lot of results are returned.

[Dienasty]

[QUOTE=edslunch;4407592]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Right, the world would be a freakin paradise if we only had engineers and business people

Nope I am saying that if someone wants to learn the arts they can pay to go to a private school/learn on their own. Shouldn't be subsidized by the government.

In my opinion Art is not a necessity it is a privilege, thus it makes sense that it is the first thing to be cut in lean times. Not sure why we should increase taxes to fund post secondary art programs...

Plus I said Architecture...that is basically Art.

On top of that the art students are the ones who leave university and are a drain on EI. With more people employed (taxable income) less people unemployed (drain on EI) we wouldn't need to increase taxes. No?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/05...tes-infograph/

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Evidence? Because when I google "tax cuts", an awful lot of results are returned.

For evidence one needs to look to the recent GST cut. The federal government reduced their consumption tax by two percent and the provincial governments promptly responded by snapping up that tax room and raising their taxes by the 2%.
Oh wait, that's how it happened right?

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Evidence? Because when I google "tax cuts", an awful lot of results are returned.

Tax rates are cut in lean times to stimulate the economy, get more investments, start up corporations to increase the provincial revenue pool so there is more revenue to tax etc. Tax are usually not cut when the province is prosperous, the government knows that if they don't spend to the budget of there department then that funding will go somewhere else thus they spend it frivoulously to meet budgets. When there is more revenue, there is larger budgets, increase in public sector salaries etc.

I don't remember the last time the federal or provincial tax rate was cut... I do know the government increased the personal deduction limit, however increased CPP and EI in the same year...

I can only think of Ralph bucks as a time that the government gave back. (Even though it was ridiculous)

Heck look at the city of Calgary, they overbilled property taxes had this extra influx in cash and now are considering increasing property taxes again. This was before the floods.

Here is some of there spending habits in town hall:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...738/story.html

Now I don't think all these expenses are ridiculous, but these are the people that will get to decide what to do with the extra influx of cash ie buy more flowers at his own store, and then expense it to the tax payers... nice scam!

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

For evidence one needs to look to the recent GST cut. The federal government reduced their consumption tax by two percent and the provincial governments promptly responded by snapping up that tax room and raising their taxes by the 2%.
Oh wait, that's how it happened right?

That is a good point, however I file this under exception rather then a trend.


Then in 2009 the the Government outlawed the trust company,

Not to mention HST has already increased in 2 of the 5 provinces since GST was reduced and BC has since adopted it.

http://www.gst.gc.ca/

HST down to 13%

Weird that Nova Scotia is back up to 15%, and PEI 14%
http://www.proccounting.com/resource...hst-rates.html

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

For evidence one needs to look to the recent GST cut. The federal government reduced their consumption tax by two percent and the provincial governments promptly responded by snapping up that tax room and raising their taxes by the 2%.
Oh wait, that's how it happened right?

Ignoring the obvious fact that one incident is meaningless when trying to prove that governments nearly always raise taxes, which provinces raised their pst after the federal government reduced the gst? Ontario didn't. Alberta didn't.

[edslunch]

[QUOTE=Dienasty;4407731]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Nope I am saying that if someone wants to learn the arts they can pay to go to a private school/learn on their own. Shouldn't be subsidized by the government.

In my opinion Art is not a necessity it is a privilege, thus it makes sense that it is the first thing to be cut in lean times. Not sure why we should increase taxes to fund post secondary art programs...

Plus I said Architecture...that is basically Art.

On top of that the art students are the ones who leave university and are a drain on EI. With more people employed (taxable income) less people unemployed (drain on EI) we wouldn't need to increase taxes. No?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/05...tes-infograph/

You make it sound like all we need to do is open up more spots for engineering and science and all the philosophers and writers will flock to them. There are very specific qualifications required to get into something like engineering and unless you're very good at math and science you won't succeed in that field. People are wired differently and that's a good thing!

The government has a responsibility to ensure that all people have access to higher education, regardless of their chosen field. It's easy to confuse education with job training, but really it's mind training - how to think critically, how to absorb information, how to communicate, how to tackle problems, deadlines, etc. Even the kids taking the Sopranos course - are they just learning the plotlines? No, they are using that show as a vehicle for learning how to analyze, how to formulate arguments, how to communicate, .... all basic skills required to succeed in life. Many (most?) people don't end up staying in their chosen career their whole lives so the exact details of what they learn is less important over time. I graduated in Mechanical Engineering but have worked my whole career in the software industry - does that mean my engineering training was a waste? Not at all. A more educated society is a better society.

I can't argue that people who study the arts have a harder time finding good jobs but that doesn't diminish the value of people who go that route. I'll bet you a case of beer that the UI you're looking at right now had design input from someone with an arts degree. The last book you read, the last movie you saw, the last church service you went to, the last counselling you got, the last latte you bought - all served up by the arts.

I also found it curious that Architecture and Information Technology were two of the top five worst jobs in the list you linked, showing that it isn't simply arts vs. professions.

Edit: somehow the quoted post got attributed to me and makes it look like I'm arguing with myself lol

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

. . . the last latte you bought - all served up by the arts.

You bet. My last fast food meal, coffee, etc. were all served up by a former arts student.

Seriously though, so many people spend years and years in "arts" and "general studies" and end up doing nothing with it. Professional students.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Ignoring the obvious fact that one incident is meaningless when trying to prove that governments nearly always raise taxes, which provinces raised their pst after the federal government reduced the gst? Ontario didn't. Alberta didn't.

I was agreeing with you. I think one or two provinces did but by and large the tax points were left alone.

[Dienasty]

[QUOTE=edslunch;4407872]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Edit: somehow the quoted post got attributed to me and makes it look like I'm arguing with myself lol

Yeah that is really weird.

I see your viewpoint, and I know my opinion isn't that of everyone. To tie it back to the whole tax discussion, my point was basically if we need to raise taxes to support the "arts/social Sciences" I would rather not increase taxes.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I was agreeing with you. I think one or two provinces did but by and large the tax points were left alone.

Sorry, Matt. I misunderstood. I'm not used to having people agree with me!

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Tax rates are cut in lean times to stimulate the economy, get more investments, start up corporations to increase the provincial revenue pool so there is more revenue to tax etc. Tax are usually not cut when the province is prosperous, the government knows that if they don't spend to the budget of there department then that funding will go somewhere else thus they spend it frivoulously to meet budgets. When there is more revenue, there is larger budgets, increase in public sector salaries etc.

Sounds like pretty much any large organization, no?

[edslunch]

[QUOTE=Dienasty;4407945]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Yeah that is really weird.

I see your viewpoint, and I know my opinion isn't that of everyone. To tie it back to the whole tax discussion, my point was basically if we need to raise taxes to support the "arts/social Sciences" I would rather not increase taxes.

Agreed no one would campaign on that platform as a winning strategy. My real point is that education and other planned spending was abruptly cut when resource revenues didn't materialize as forecast. Whether we agree on the budgets or not the fact is that they routinely get trumped by volatile energy revenues. A lot of people voted for Redford because she promised stable education funding lol. If government spending was tied to tax revenue we'd have more stability and less upheaval seemingly every other year.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by chemgear

You bet. My last fast food meal, coffee, etc. were all served up by a former arts student.

Seriously though, so many people spend years and years in "arts" and "general studies" and end up doing nothing with it. Professional students.

It was a joke, but too true. I still like their chances better than the average high school grad or dropout

[4X4]

Holy crap, somebody give edslunch and dienasty the 101 on quoting.

[cal_guy]

[QUOTE=Dienasty;4407731]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Nope I am saying that if someone wants to learn the arts they can pay to go to a private school/learn on their own. Shouldn't be subsidized by the government.

In my opinion Art is not a necessity it is a privilege, thus it makes sense that it is the first thing to be cut in lean times. Not sure why we should increase taxes to fund post secondary art programs...

Plus I said Architecture...that is basically Art.

On top of that the art students are the ones who leave university and are a drain on EI. With more people employed (taxable income) less people unemployed (drain on EI) we wouldn't need to increase taxes. No?
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/05...tes-infograph/

And here's an article by the President of Shiga which argues that Japan's decline on the emphasizing on subjects that are "useful".

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/.../#.UkY8HIasjAk

[Mr.Coffee]

I think it's short-sighted and sadly predictable when people in a "have" province like Alberta today bitch and moan about transfer payments to "have-not" provinces.

Pretty certain there was a time when we were the "have-not" and received support from Canada and pretty certain that time will happen again, possibly in our lifetimes. The non-renewable resources industry that drives our economy will- for certain- eventually dry up and decline. As I stated in my earlier post, if we don't have a back-up plan, we'll probably be looking to the future "have" provinces for support.

We are 1 country, don't be greedy tits. Our kids are gonna need this goodwill we're building.