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Old 09-26-2013, 03:00 PM   #141
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It doesn't sound like Sven has been a victim of his own expectations, it sounds like the Flames feel he'd been a victim of his own attitude and effort.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen anyone question his effort or his attitude. They're all mentioning his mindset – as in his confidence & whatnot.

Baertschi strikes me as someone who plays really well when he's confident in his position & comfortable. He's come into this preseason with the 'weight of the world on his shoulders' (Conroy's words), wanting to prove himself & possibly over thinking. He's still got all the skills & drive, but he's not quite firing on all cylinders.

Fingers-crossed that Baertschi makes the team. I don't think Sven would react well to a 'tough love' demotion, and I'm sure deep down management know this. Should he make the cut & get some good icetime I think the confidence he gains from that will pay off in spades.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #142
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It doesn't sound like Sven has been a victim of his own expectations, it sounds like the Flames feel he'd been a victim of his own attitude and effort.

And that's likely the key from the Flames perspective. Sven is likely still in the mix if what Feaster says is true because of his great talent that allows him to still be pretty decent (as you described) him despite not putting forth the consistent effort or attitude they'd want. Problem is, if he's not "meeting" the lofty expecations due to attitude or effort, there likely isn't much the Flames can do to fix that other than to be firm and hard handed. Coddling him won't fix an effort or attitude problem, and fixing any issues that MAY exsist in that area now is actually the best thing for team and player long term.
Don't agree with this at all, not every person responds to the same type of feedback and coaching. Some people need some coddling and some people need the firm hand.

From that article posted it sounds like Sven's confidence is low and his self esteem is down already, and it states that he is a guy that already puts a lot of pressure on himself due to the expectations placed on him.

Does sending down a guy like that really help him? Maybe giving him a couple regular season games to get his confidence back and coddling him a little bit is the better option.

I just don't think that anybody else has really outplayed him and that sending him down would be because his expectations were higher coming in. So while he over promised and under delivered, everybody else over delivered and under promised so they end up looking better, even though they were probably equal at worst.

And not sure where the attitude issues are coming from, nothing in the media stated that his attitude has been an issue in the way people are inferring on this site.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:08 PM   #143
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It's hard for me to get excited if the only rookie we're going to have on a rebuilding team is Monahan.

I'd rather be young and lose (with a handful of vets like Glencross, Gio, Cammalleri, etc.) than old and lose.
i don't think putting young guys in for the sake of having young guys is what will constitute a "rebuilding team" or at least a good one for that matter.

Flames have some vets, and they have some young prospects. They don't have a plethora of prospects who have had time to develop (ie. gotten their time in the AHL) or are elite where they can skip that stage.

They have been pretty clear that if your the hardest working/best contributor you'll be given a chance to play. Granted i haven't watched all the preseason, but just reading CP, i don't see many cuts that can be argued as guys who were better than x/y/z players that still remain at flames camp.

I think for this rebuild, it is important the flames position their philosophy as the hardest working guys will be given the opportunities, and even more importantly be patient with the youth. A rebuilding team doesn't necessarily have to be the youngest team out there. it needs to be a team positioning themselves for tomorrow more than today, which may mean playing 2nd tier players in the NHL in order to give the youth the patient development they need.

I'm happy to see monahan likely getting his 9 games. I'll be even more happy as a fan when i see him go down if he's not an obvious shoe-in to stick, as i think that indicates what this franchise needs to be about, which is the long term betterment of the franchise.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:10 PM   #144
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Any word on Cammalleri's hand injury? Hudler? I've got myself & everyone all worked-up regarding Sven based on the premise that these 2 are going to come back after missing the entire preseason.

Regarding Hudler you would think Feaster could get some kind of trade return for him.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:10 PM   #145
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Why not try playing Sven with some decent linemates? That's where he thrives, and that's when he played well in the preseason.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #146
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i don't think putting young guys in for the sake of having young guys is what will constitute a "rebuilding team" or at least a good one for that matter.

Flames have some vets, and they have some young prospects. They don't have a plethora of prospects who have had time to develop (ie. gotten their time in the AHL) or are elite where they can skip that stage.

They have been pretty clear that if your the hardest working/best contributor you'll be given a chance to play. Granted i haven't watched all the preseason, but just reading CP, i don't see many cuts that can be argued as guys who were better than x/y/z players that still remain at flames camp.

I think for this rebuild, it is important the flames position their philosophy as the hardest working guys will be given the opportunities, and even more importantly be patient with the youth. A rebuilding team doesn't necessarily have to be the youngest team out there. it needs to be a team positioning themselves for tomorrow more than today, which may mean playing 2nd tier players in the NHL in order to give the youth the patient development they need.

I'm happy to see monahan likely getting his 9 games. I'll be even more happy as a fan when i see him go down if he's not an obvious shoe-in to stick, as i think that indicates what this franchise needs to be about, which is the long term betterment of the franchise.
The Flames need to put their rookies in positions to succeed or we'll be drafting anywhere from 4th-9th for the next 5 seasons. You can't rebuild if you're young players aren't playing, aren't getting the experience and knowledge of what it takes to be a player in the NHL.

That doesn't mean rushing young players, but I don't know how anyone could argue that we've rushed anyone.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #147
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We should have a vote to see who would be pissed if Sven got sent down. I would.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:13 PM   #148
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Why would Feaster have any desire to try and ship out Hudler after just bringing him last offseason?

He was one of the best offensive players on the team last season. Definitely one of the bright spots. There are other equally replaceable options who're easier to get rid of.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #149
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We should have a vote to see who would be pissed if Sven got sent down. I would.
No need for a vote/poll I can tell you right now almost every Flames fan would be pissed.

Whether it is the right or wrong decision is the question.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:18 PM   #150
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Something about Baertschi's attitude bothers me. He says that there is nothing he can do to influence their decision and "it is what it is". That's a BS way of looking at it.

I really hope he makes the team and I think he has a lot of skill, but he really needs some killer instinct.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:18 PM   #151
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I think Sven has to stay regardless. He hasn't had a great camp but he is an NHL hockey player and a top 6 one at that. He had a great finish to the year last year and I think he will pick it up again. Right or wrong he's locked his spot. I think managment saying he's on the bubble is just lip service for him to get his act together.

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Something about Baertschi's attitude bothers me. He says that there is nothing he can do to influence their decision and "it is what it is". That's a BS way of looking at it.

I really hope he makes the team and I think he has a lot of skill, but he really needs some killer instinct.
Yeah I'm not sure why that is. It's especially odd because he seemed to have the exact opposite attitude when he first got here. He was always forst on last off the ice. Everyone was praising his attitude and willingness to improve as his best trait.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:19 PM   #152
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I think it would be the wrong decision (to Sureloss' post)
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #153
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The pre-season is over. The only way he can influence management and coaches is through practices, and that's a pretty poor way to evaluate a player. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

English is also not his first language. Don't expect him to express himself the same way somebody like Monahan can.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #154
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His quote about playing with Hudler and TJ, being exciting concerns me a little bit. Sounds like he's pretty jazzed to play with NHL vets (which is understandable), but it also raises the question as to why he associated his good play that game with playing with those guys. Who were his line mates in other games? Does he not feel excited to play with whoever he's put with, it's it too hard for him to play well if he doesn't have vets on his line up?

Everytime I hear Sven speak recently I get the impression if he's not doing well, he feels its because he hasn't been put in the right position to do well by the Flames. Don't really like how defensive he seems to already become this early in his career. As boring as it would be, I'd much rather hear some standard answers from him about keeping his head down, working hard and trying to get better everyday.
I think you are adding drama where there isn't any.

He said he liked playing with talented guys - who doesn't? Especially offensive guys, they need talent to work with.

He may also be referring to the fact that, during the pre-season, he has been lined up with mostly less offensive players. I think he's right.

Fans want him to be the best player in the history of hockey. But Hartley is giving him 13 minutes with grinders.

All he is saying is that, when he played with some good players, he had a lot of success.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:25 PM   #155
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Hopefully the next 9 games (if he makes the team) Monahan can continue to take strides.

Last night was the first chance I had to watch him and personally I thought he looked a little green. His hockey sense is definitely there, but he's not very assertive and that's not terribly surprising considering his age.

Personally, if last night's game was indicative of his play then I'd prefer to see him return to junior to refine his offensive game. No harm in letting him dominate and develop a bit of a swagger before he turns pro.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:26 PM   #156
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The pre-season is over. The only way he can influence management and coaches is through practices, and that's a pretty poor way to evaluate a player. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

English is also not his first language. Don't expect him to express himself the same way somebody like Monahan can.
Yeah I was going to say this too. While Sven's english is very good. Things like tone and subtext in what he says won't be translated the same. He has to say everything literally. He's right, the decision is the coach's. Saying he can't affect it isn't right, but saying he can't change it is (once the decision is made). Every time I see him interviewed tho he looks depressed or something.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #157
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Why would Feaster have any desire to try and ship out Hudler after just bringing him last offseason?

He was one of the best offensive players on the team last season. Definitely one of the bright spots. There are other equally replaceable options who're easier to get rid of.
I like Hudler, but I don't see how he fits into the longterm plan. Even now we have too many small wingers. The balance of the lineup is askew when Cammy, Hudler & Baertschi are all factored in. Even when Cammallieri is gone Gaudreau will be in the frame & we'll have yet another small left-shooting winger. Hudler is locked-down for a few more years & I don't necessarily see how he fits in.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #158
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[QUOTE=MattyC;4406937]Yeah I was going to say this too. While Sven's english is very good. Things like tone and subtext in what he says won't be translated the same. He has to say everything literally. He's right, the decision is the coach's. Saying he can't affect it isn't right, but saying he can't change it is (once the decision is made). Every time I see him interviewed tho he looks depressed or something.[/QUOTE]

Stressed.

He wants to be as good as fans want him to be.

If I was the coach, I would take a different approach than Hartley has: I would give him lots of ice-time and PP time to see if he can going.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:29 PM   #159
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I think you are adding drama where there isn't any.

He said he liked playing with talented guys - who doesn't? Especially offensive guys, they need talent to work with.

He may also be referring to the fact that, during the pre-season, he has been lined up with mostly less offensive players. I think he's right.

Fans want him to be the best player in the history of hockey. But Hartley is giving him 13 minutes with grinders.

All he is saying is that, when he played with some good players, he had a lot of success.
I don't think I'm adding drama at all. I agree, sounds like he's been lined up with less talent guys a lot. Unfortunately his reaction hasn't been to say things like "I'll keep working at trying to find ways to be better and contribute even more", it's been to point out that it's hard to contribute with the line mates he's been given. He said the exact same thing in an interview on the Fam after Penticton, basically said he had gotten used to playing with Pro's, and it's hard to produce playing with the younger players.

Wether it's confidence or and attitude problem, his comments done provide confidence that his head is in the right spot for the upcoming season.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:32 PM   #160
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[QUOTE=Enoch Root;4406940]
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Yeah I was going to say this too. While Sven's english is very good. Things like tone and subtext in what he says won't be translated the same. He has to say everything literally. He's right, the decision is the coach's. Saying he can't affect it isn't right, but saying he can't change it is (once the decision is made). Every time I see him interviewed tho he looks depressed or something.[/QUOTE]

Stressed.

He wants to be as good as fans want him to be.

If I was the coach, I would take a different approach than Hartley has: I would give him lots of ice-time and PP time to see if he can going.
yeah I think it's especailly important with young talented players to give them leeway on certain types of mistakes. If Sven turns the puck over a few times because he's trying to make something happen offensively, they can't be eating his lunch for that.

Lack of effort and such, yeah give him crap, but as long as he's trying to push himself over that edge, mistakes made in the process need to be somewhat forgiven. And the same goes for all relatively fresh players.
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