[GDT] Coyotes at Flames on TSN! - 7 pm MDT

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by flambers

Other factor the Flames look at is the OHL club he potentially could be returned to, problem is the club was not very good.

WJC would be great.

Not much of a factor, since the 67's will obviously trade him at some point if he's returned to junior.

Truth is, however, Monahan has proven he can play at this level. He's got nine games now to prove he can still play when the intensity and talent level ramps up for regular season games.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why else did you post then?

You said you weren't making any conclusions, but I can't understand the purpose of your post otherwise.

Either way, it's a bad post. Purposeless or misguided.

The purpose of my post was simple:

- I have not seen Sven play yet this year
- people seem to be very concerned about his play
- given I haven't seen him play, I was looking for some indication from those that have, what, if anything has Sven been doing or not been doing this pre season to create such a stark change in comments from folks on the board.

I was not looking for someone to have a hissy fit because it's the pre season still. I was not requesting someone verify the calendar for me, I'm well aware which part of the season this is, as per my post, what I'm not aware of how Sven has been playing during this pre season.

I'm sure my writing style has plenty of room for improvement, I don't have any delusions about winning any awards for it, but looking back at the post, pretty sure it was clear I acknowledged no meaningful games have been played, pretty sure I asked for how he''s been playing given the crazy comments. Also pretty sure I did not ask for someone to explain whether they can give me their opinion on whether the pre season means anything.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Stajan - relatively sloppy game from him, several blatant giveaways and got killed in the dot.

Jones - barely noticed him other than his adventures around the net... but at least he is there.

Glencross - one of his quiet games, have seen it before and will certainly see it again.

Stempniak - pretty ineffective out there tonight.

Backlund - moves the puck forward, gains the zone, and generates some offence. He was working but not accomplishing too much.

Knight - pretty solid game until the weak D-zone play in OT. Used his size better than I had seen him do in the previous games. Looks more comfortable and I would say he is right in the mix.

Baertschi - had a Hudler-esque game tonight where you don't notice him doing much of anything until he strips the puck off of somebody or he makes a pass that generates a chance. He wasn't dominant or even above average, but he is also not playing with the type of players that suit his game. I maintain my high hopes for a good season out of him.

Monahan - if I am making cuts then he would be on the team. Good on draws, makes smart plays and the puck is either around him or around the opposing teams net when he gets on the ice. Very good player.

Street - won some board battles and showed some good speed. I would demote him though because I don't think he brings anything that the team doesn't have in another player.

Bouma - makes things happen. Wins board battles and gets his nose dirty in the slot and the other hard areas. He must have a spot locked up by now.

Jackman - sort of like Street in that he isn't awful but he's not more effective than anyone else and he's taking up a spot that should be going to a younger guy. Good on him for the fight though, the team picked up their play after that.

O'Brien - pretty shaky back there. He made a good pinch on one of the goals and some good breakout passes, but in the D-zone he is having an adventure on most shifts.

Butler - another one of those veterans who wasn't obviously bad, but isn't doing much to show why they deserve the spot over anyone else. I prefer Smith.

Giordano - probably Calgary's best D on the night. He was skating well and playing physical while also making a few plays in the offensive zone.

Brodie - was skating well, but I thought he struggled on the defensive cycle (credit to Phoenix, that is their strength). Brutal giveaway that could have cost the game.

Wideman - no gaffes and no great offensive plays, very quiet night for him.

Russell - can't really remember much of him tonight.

Berra - Huge save on that breakaway and had a few other good moments. However, while the goals weren't awful, he had a chance on all of them. Phoenix also basically stopped trying to score after they put in goal 2, so he wasn't being tested for a large portion of the game.

Phoenix - I hate them. They are so boring. They went to a 1-4 forecheck in the first goddamn period.

Appreciate you taking the time to break it down and I agree with most of your comments. I don't like to nit pick but I have to strongly disagree with the Brodie comments. Yes, the puck that he bobbled at the blue line was bad, but he does make high risk high reward plays all over the ice, and this will happen sometimes. As for the defensive cycle, I thought he was brilliant. He has the knack for knowing when to attack the puck carrier and come out with the puck. Kids got a great stick.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by zukes

To me, when a junior aged kid makes the club, he should be ready to play in his projected role.

That's all well and good, but it kind of flies in the face of what every NHL team does. Every single NHL team just puts a player in if he's ready to play. Monahan is projected as a sound two-way guy who can consistently put up points, and on the third line you NEED big two-way guys. You want him to be a first line center, but if you send him down to junior because he's not the best center on your team (despite him being fully capable of playing a role and developing at the NHL level) then you do a disservice to him, IMO.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by zukes

I really don't know why so many want to rush Monahan to the NHL. ...

I don't think many, if any, want to "rush" him. If he's ready that's a different matter.

[Ashasx]

If we so send Monahan down, I'd want the 67s to trade him immediately. Not at the deadline, but now.

He needs to play with some players who can at least put up half the points he does in a season. He won't get that (again) in Ottawa.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flambers

Other factor the Flames look at is the OHL club he potentially could be returned to, problem is the club was not very good.

WJC would be great.

Not much changes if he stays in Calgary.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not much changes if he stays in Calgary.

Good point. Not much changes... except for everything outside the expectation that his team won't be very good in its respective league.

If the choice is between the Flames vs. the 67s then Monahan needs to stay up with the Flames. He will have a low pressure year with us as he won't be expected to carry the team and the team won't really be expected to win. That gives him the breathing room to adjust to the NHL level of play.

There may be some value in him going to the OHL with the hopes that he will be traded to the Mem cup winning team but I am not really convinced that that experience is worth more than being a front-runner in the rebuild and adapting to the NHL a year before a lot of the other guys in the system.

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Good point. Not much changes... except for everything outside the expectation that his team won't be very good in its respective league.

If the choice is between the Flames vs. the 67s then Monahan needs to stay up with the Flames. He will have a low pressure year with us as he won't be expected to carry the team and the team won't really be expected to win. That gives him the breathing room to adjust to the NHL level of play.

There may be some value in him going to the OHL with the hopes that he will be traded to the Mem cup winning team but I am not really convinced that that experience is worth more than being a front-runner in the rebuild and adapting to the NHL a year before a lot of the other guys in the system.

I agree, if the '67s don't plan on trading Monahan right away, he is going to learn more at an NHL level. I've seen enough of him to think that he's not in over his head in the NHL and provided the Flames are willing to give him opportunity, he can learn more here than on a bad '67s team.

[strombad]

I think the main problem with Monahan is that based on his baby face, I question his playoff beard growing ability in the next 5 years. I can't be having a Crosbystache running around on our team. Do not want.

[automaton 3]

The Coyotes continue to play a miserable, unexciting brand of hockey. It might keep them competitive, but does not have much in the way of entertainment value IMO. They may need to introduce some more excitement to their game if they hope to build on their fanbase.

Monahan has earned his 9 games up. Now he needs to show that he belongs for the entire year. I just don't see much value in sending him down if he can compete and learn at this level.

Was impressed with Bouma's play, he is a gamer.

The Flames lineup is noticeably bigger, and IMO faster than last year. At least they aren't going to get pushed around this year. If they stick to Hartley's game plan they might not be as bad as expected.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

The Coyotes continue to play a miserable, unexciting brand of hockey. It might keep them competitive, but does not have much in the way of entertainment value IMO. They may need to introduce some more excitement to their game if they hope to build on their fanbase.

Fans here quite enjoy Tippet's style of a team and team play. Also, signing the top UFA Center who made a dandy of a play assisting on Ekman-Larsson's goal is a boring move

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I know everyone is concerned about Monahan's development, but I think he should stay with the club if he proves to be ready.

There's a reason why the Flames management have been drafting guys like Monahan. High Skill and High Hockey IQ. I think the key here is Monahan's ability to adapt to the NHL. If he does indeed have high hockey IQ like everyone believes, then he needs to stay with the big club.

Some people are capable of thinking outside of the box and being self taught. I see Monahan the same. I believe that's why Flames have focused most of our draftees on the IQ aspect, even though some of them are considered undersized. If you have the smarts for the game, you will learn to adapt to or surpass the competition.

I can't see him doing that if he goes back to the juniors.

Also, in regards to sheltering him and introducing him to stronger competition in due time, I believe you can still do that. He won't be playing on the first line and facing first line opponents. Give him +/-15 minutes on the third line, and the occasional 2nd line. I don't think that will hinder his growth.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by strombad

I think the main problem with Monahan is that based on his baby face, I question his playoff beard growing ability in the next 5 years. I can't be having a Crosbystache running around on our team. Do not want.

^^^^^
Green text? I'm 100% sure Sean will be able to grow a massive biker-tache by the time the Flames next make the playoffs...

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

^^^^^
Green text? I'm 100% sure Sean will be able to grow a massive biker-tache by the time the Flames next make the playoffs...

One of the big regrets of my life is that ZZ Top never had a hockey team.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

I agree, if the '67s don't plan on trading Monahan right away, he is going to learn more at an NHL level. I've seen enough of him to think that he's not in over his head in the NHL and provided the Flames are willing to give him opportunity, he can learn more here than on a bad '67s team.

I am willing to go a step further than that. I think at this point, even if Monahan's OHL rights does get traded to London, I feel that he would gain more from playing in the NHL.

Originally Posted by automaton 3

The Flames lineup is noticeably bigger, and IMO faster than last year. At least they aren't going to get pushed around this year. If they stick to Hartley's game plan they might not be as bad as expected.

I guess as long as Hartley keeps to Burke's game plan (bigger, faster, ?younger? players) he will get to keep his job.

With all the excitement of training camp and preseaon games and the focus on player cuts, I almost forgot that with the Flames having a new boss, everyone below Burke are essentially auditioning for their jobs right now too.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by zukes

To me, when a junior aged kid makes the club, he should be ready to play in his projected role. Right now, people seem to be saying that Monahan would be the 3rd centre, traditionally that is a checking role. Monahan, while projected to be decent to good defensively, is an offensive player, a top 6 forward. If he is not ready to be a top 6, let him go dominate the OHL, play the WJC, play in the playoffs/potentially the Memorial Cup and have him ready for next year.

There is no rush.

Agreed that there is no rush, but if the player is NHL ready & has outplayed most others in the organisation then there's no reason to not reward him with a roster spot. Rushing a player is detrimental when the player is not ready, but I don't see any benefit to his development by allowing to hone his skills with the big boys.

Also, looking at the Flames group of forwards, I would argue that our 'first line' (Glenny/Stajan/Stemper) is actually our best defensive line. Monahan as the 'third line' centre means he'll likely have Hudler, Bærtschi & Cammalleri as his line mates over the course of the year. His abilities in the dot & knack for clutch goals would indicate he could be used in all situations.

Should Monahan pass his 9-game audition I could see him having a Logan Couture or Jeff Skinner style rookie season.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

One of the big regrets of my life is that ZZ Top never had a hockey team.

It's not too late!

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

It's not too late!

That would be so cool. I bet they'd hang out with the ice girls all the time.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

^^^^^
Green text? I'm 100% sure Sean will be able to grow a massive biker-tache by the time the Flames next make the playoffs...

No green text, I just don't see a beard on that face. I see a Crosby and Toews massacre.

But if we get Ekblad, I'll let it slide.