[Signing] Leafs sign Cody Franson [1 year, $2mil]

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

They didn't want a one year deal with Franson becuase they have to many UFA players that are ahead of him in order of importance. He still could be traded if they think his arbitration case will be to high.

On another note, someone told me that Franson was eligible for arbitration this year. He turned it down because he thought he could get a good deal with Toronto. Is this true? If so, he must be kicking himself.

They do have a lot of UFA's. But some won't be kept. Even re-signing Kessel/Phaneuf won't be too much. The cap is going up, and Tucker/Armstrong's cap hits are coming off.

They're in a cap crunch because for once the cap went down.

And yes, Franson could have filed for arbitration. 2 million is a steal for him.

[devo22]

UFA next year:
Phil Kessel
Dave Bolland
Nikolai Kulemin
Mason Raymond
Jay McClement
Dion Phaneuf
Mark Fraser
Paul Ranger

RFA next year:
Joe Colborne
Jake Gardiner
James Reimer
Cody Franson

yikes ... no wonder they wanted to sign Franson to a two-year deal.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

The Leafs have a ton of cap room next season. This is a 1 year issue only. And he's RFA, so they won't trade him.

That depends on the issue. If Frason doesn't want to play for the Leafs then the issue probably won't go away in a year.

At that point he is likely hoping for a trade or to be hugely paid for any term that goes into his UFA years.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by devo22

UFA next year:
Phil Kessel
Dave Bolland
Nikolai Kulemin
Mason Raymond
Jay McClement
Dion Phaneuf
Mark Fraser
Paul Ranger

RFA next year:
Joe Colborne
Jake Gardiner
James Reimer
Cody Franson

yikes ... no wonder they wanted to sign Franson to a two-year deal.

They were never supposed to sign Kadri and Franson. they did and added Raymond. way too early to predict doom and gloom. Kessel and Phaneuf in total are looking at about 3 million in raises. that's the amount of the Tucker/Armstrong cap hits coming off the books.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

They were never supposed to sign Kadri and Franson. they did and added Raymond. way too early to predict doom and gloom. Kessel and Phaneuf in total are looking at about 3 million in raises. that's the amount of the Tucker/Armstrong cap hits coming off the books.

I don't see Phaneuf getting a raise. He hasn't really done anything to make people think that he is worth more than $6.5M. If anything, he should be going down in pay considering his drop in offensive production from his early 50-60 point seasons.

Kessel is definitely getting a raise though.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

They were never supposed to sign Kadri and Franson. they did and added Raymond. way too early to predict doom and gloom. Kessel and Phaneuf in total are looking at about 3 million in raises. that's the amount of the Tucker/Armstrong cap hits coming off the books.

not about doom and gloom here, I personally couldn't care less how they'll handle it. Still, as a GM you don't want to be in a situation where half of your roster needs new contracts, including your captain, top scorer and one of the goaltenders.

Will be interesting to see how they'll deal with cap this year. All of their roster players would need waivers, including Colborne.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I don't see Phaneuf getting a raise. He hasn't really done anything to make people think that he is worth more than $6.5M. If anything, he should be going down in pay considering his drop in offensive production from his early 50-60 point seasons.

Kessel is definitely getting a raise though.

Scoring is down. How many D-men get 50+ points now? Phaneuf is still putting up very good offensive numbers. This idea he's so "overpaid" is a joke. His numbers are just too good.

I think the Leafs can lock him up @ 6.5 per again, but that would be less than he's get on the open market.

Kessel will get a raise, hence my 3 million raise in total prediction.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Scoring is down. How many D-men get 50+ points now? Phaneuf is still putting up very good offensive numbers. This idea he's so "overpaid" is a joke. His numbers are just too good.

I think the Leafs can lock him up @ 6.5 per again, but that would be less than he's get on the open market.

Kessel will get a raise, hence my 3 million raise in total prediction.

Yikes, blue coloured glasses?
Phaneuf is definitely overpaid. He's a 5 million guy sure, but 6.5? Not if you want any value out of your contract at all.
He's a little slower and makes big mistakes. He's Wideman with hitting ability, and it's pretty common knowledge we overpaid for him at 5.25

No way Phaneuf is worth over 5.5, not even remotely possible.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

Yikes, blue coloured glasses?
Phaneuf is definitely overpaid. He's a 5 million guy sure, but 6.5? Not if you want any value out of your contract at all.
He's a little slower and makes big mistakes. He's Wideman with hitting ability, and it's pretty common knowledge we overpaid for him at 5.25

No way Phaneuf is worth over 5.5, not even remotely possible.

Oh come on. And I'm delusional? Have you seen his stats? This guys would get 7 million+ on the open market.

Wideman isn't even close to Phaneuf.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by strombad

Yikes, blue coloured glasses?
Phaneuf is definitely overpaid. He's a 5 million guy sure, but 6.5? Not if you want any value out of your contract at all.
He's a little slower and makes big mistakes. He's Wideman with hitting ability, and it's pretty common knowledge we overpaid for him at 5.25

No way Phaneuf is worth over 5.5, not even remotely possible.

I agree with th bolded part but if he goes to UFA some team will give him $6 million +.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I agree with th bolded part but if he goes to UFA some team will give him $6 million +.

only 6 million +? Try 7+

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh come on. And I'm delusional? Have you seen his stats? This guys would get 7 million+ on the open market.

Wideman isn't even close to Phaneuf.

I'd say Wideman is better in his own zone than Phaneuf is. Wideman is also less likely to make a terrible pinch that costs his team a game (in the playoffs).

$6.5M was an overpayment for Phaneuf. We were paying for the hope that his offensive stats would improve or maintain from his 50-60 point seasons and they didn't.

I can see him getting overpaid again and staying at $6.5M but he doesn't deserve a raise. Ideally he should take a "home town discount".

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I'd say Wideman is better in his own zone than Phaneuf is. Wideman is also less likely to make a terrible pinch that costs his team a game (in the playoffs).

$6.5M was an overpayment for Phaneuf. We were paying for the hope that his offensive stats would improve or maintain from his 50-60 point seasons and they didn't.

I can see him getting overpaid again and staying at $6.5M but he doesn't deserve a raise. Ideally he should take a "home town discount".

He actually was on pace for over 50 last season and had 44 two years ago. He also logs litterally the toughest minutes in the entire NHl.

You can say you think Wideman is better defensively, but it's certainly not proven given their different roles.

Phaneuf's stats matched Shea Weber's in every category last season.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I'd say Wideman is better in his own zone than Phaneuf is. Wideman is also less likely to make a terrible pinch that costs his team a game (in the playoffs).

$6.5M was an overpayment for Phaneuf. We were paying for the hope that his offensive stats would improve or maintain from his 50-60 point seasons and they didn't.

I can see him getting overpaid again and staying at $6.5M but he doesn't deserve a raise. Ideally he should take a "home town discount".

Not sure that Wideman is better in his own zone. Wideman plays on a 2nd pairing and had Gio as his partner last year. Dion plays against the toughest competition and had a rookie on his other side for half the year.

They are both not great on the defensive side but i think Dion would be better as a 2nd pairing d-man over Wideman.

As for price i would have no problem having Dion back if it was $5.5 million. I think he gets way more than that though.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh come on. And I'm delusional? Have you seen his stats? This guys would get 7 million+ on the open market.

Wideman isn't even close to Phaneuf.

Over the last four years:
Phaneuf - 277 GP, 134P (41G/93A)
Wideman - 279 GP, 138P (33G/105A)

I guess I must just be crazy, those stats are wacky doodle fantastic.

Again, Wideman with the ability to hit. Both minus players if that's your thing (though that speaks to a mixture of team and individual mistakes, so hard to say if it's fair to judge them on that).
He isn't worth a dime over 5.5, and yes, that would make you delusional.
Example:
Erik Karlsson and Pietrangelo (or however you spell that bad boy)
6.5 per.
If you even attempt to say Phaneuf is worth more than either of those guys, YOU CRAZY!

He's a 5.5 guy, if a team pays him 7, then they're complete idiots.... so yeah, maybe the Leafs will pay him 7.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

Over the last four years:
Phaneuf - 277 GP, 134P (41G/93A)
Wideman - 279 GP, 138P (33G/105A)

I guess I must just be crazy, those stats are wacky doodle fantastic.

Again, Wideman with the ability to hit. Both minus players if that's your thing (though that speaks to a mixture of team and individual mistakes, so hard to say if it's fair to judge them on that).
He isn't worth a dime over 5.5, and yes, that would make you delusional.
Example:
Erik Karlsson and Pietrangelo (or however you spell that bad boy)
6.5 per.
If you even attempt to say Phaneuf is worth more than either of those guys, YOU CRAZY!

He's a 5.5 guy, if a team pays him 7, then they're completely idiots.... so yeah, maybe the Leafs will pay him 7.

Karlsson and Pietrangelo were signed as RFA's. They would have gotten more on the open market. And it's funny how you pick on Dion's defense, but Karlson's is fine. Can I point out how many bad D-men as UFA's get over 5 million that aren't in Dion's league?

And why only compare offense? Dion play tougher minutes, get more hits. He's just more of that #1 guy than Wideman will ever be. Dion is top 10 in so many categories for D-men.(points, hits, TOI).

The "Phaneuf is so overpaid" was ok in 2009'. Now it's silly.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He actually was on pace for over 50 last season and had 44 two years ago. He also logs litterally the toughest minutes in the entire NHl.

You can say you think Wideman is better defensively, but it's certainly not proven given their different roles.

Phaneuf's stats matched Shea Weber's in every category last season.

Except that Phaneuf isn't even top 10 in minutes per game when you look at all the Dmen in the NHL last season. He was 11th in the shortened season and 10th the season before that. Everyone above him on that list is logging bigger minutes against the exact same top line opponents.

Phaneuf's numbers otherwise look very similar to Weber's last season, but the season before that there was a 30 point gap between their +/-. Heck, even in the last season where Weber was on a bottom feeding team his +/- was better than Phaneuf's was on a playoff team.

Trying to say Phaneuf is as good as Weber is a bit much. Especially when using such a small sample size of data.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Except that Phaneuf isn't even top 10 in minutes per game when you look at all the Dmen in the NHL last season. He was 11th in the shortened season and 10th the season before that. Everyone above him on that list is logging bigger minutes against the exact same top line opponents.

Phaneuf's numbers otherwise look very similar to Weber's last season, but the season before that there was a 30 point gap between their +/-. Heck, even in the last season where Weber was on a bottom feeding team his +/- was better than Phaneuf's was on a playoff team.

Trying to say Phaneuf is as good as Weber is a bit much. Especially when using such a small sample size of data.

Never said that. I just said his numbers are too good to only be worth 5.5 million.

[The Fonz]

Phaneuf does not get more than 6 million aav his next contract. Not a chance.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Karlsson and Pietrangelo were signed as RFA's. They would have gotten more on the open market. And it's funny how you pick on Dion's defense, but Karlson's is fine.

And why only compare offense? Dion play tougher minutes, get more hits. He's just more of that #1 guy than Wideman will ever be. Dion is top 10 in so many categories for D-men.(points, hits, TOI).

The "Phaneuf is so overpaid" was ok in 2009'. Now it's silly.

Actually it's better to mention it now than it was in 2009, as he was paid for potential back then and hasn't reached it.

Plus, I SPECIFICALLY said I didn't count the fact that he was a minus against him. As well, Karlsson doesn't exactly need to be better than Phaneuf on defence, considering he's a world beater on offence.

It's great you love Phaneuf, I'm a big fan myself, I'd love to see the guy back on the Flames (only if Wideman disappears), but don't be delusional. He's not worth more than 5.5. COULD a team pay him around 6.5 again? Sure, but they'd be overpaying him.

That's kind of the problem you're running into here, you're pretending what desperate teams are willing to pay and what a player is worth are the same. If Phaneuf gets over 5.5, he will be overpaid, plain and simple. Doesn't mean he can't get higher, it means he isn't worth higher.

I'm willing to concede that sure, maybe he gets over 6 on the open market, but if you think he's worth that when comparing him to other guys in that range, then you're just plain wrong. That Leafs jersey is leaking blue into your brain.