[News] Kessel suspended rest of preseason. Will not miss any regular season games

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by $ven27

You implied it though, aggressive and anger go hand and hand. Kessel was angry and took it out on the guy that tried to beat him face in, there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe if he was a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier they could have done it the "right" way.

Please show me where I implied anything about it being emotionless. Yes, aggressive and anger go hand in hand often, where did I imply that Kessel's aggression was not caused by anger.

And yes, there is something wrong with attacking someone with your stick due to emmotion. What there isn't something wrong with is defending yourself with your stick.

But you've kind of proved my point. You have basically stated that Kessel did what he did out of anger, not self defense. If you are ok with anger being an "acceptable" reason to swing your stick at someone, I guess that's fair, you and I have nothing left to discuss on this topic and we will have to just dissagree. I was more interested in arguing that Kessel wasn't defending himself as why I don't like the term of his suspension, but it seems you and I have agreed on that point, but simply have different views on what should be ok out on the ice so no point debating it with you, we will both likely not change our views.

I however, really hope that the NHL doesn't view anger as an acceptable reason to slash someone.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by $ven27

When did I say that? Never, you're missing the point. If someone whacks another player for no reason viciously, then yes that's suspend-able. But If a heavy weight fighter starts charging at a player who doesn't fight, and that player gives him a whack to try to get him away, then he shouldn't be suspended for the enforcers idiocy. That's the point you're missing.

Okay I am with you on the first one but what about the second time he swung his stick?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by $ven27

You implied it though, aggressive and anger go hand and hand. Kessel was angry and took it out on the guy that tried to beat him face in, there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe if he was a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier they could have done it the "right" way.

I disagree with that. There's a difference between acting to protect yourself and acting to inflict harm out of anger, which is why I see the first slash as justified and the follow ups as deserving of punishment. Self defense has to be allowed to a certain degree, we can't expect players to just accept a beating because the other guy will be suspended after the fact. Players seeking to inflict harm out of anger really can't be accepted, there's no excuse for it, and while heated emotions may allow for lesser punishment it really does need to be punished. That would apply not only to Kessel's second swing, but also to Scott's attempt to inflict harm, despite his lack of success.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yup...and anyone else on the ice that you know can knock your block off....which in Kessels case appears to be many many guys. I mean would it have been better if it was Tyler Myers who spoke to him? He is a monster as well...or is swinging his stick OK in that instance too?

And again, Scott explicitly told him he wasnt going to hurt him according to Ray who would have the ability to fond out if thats true or not.

Let's stop pretending like Ray is speaking gospel here. That's nothing but hearsay.

Just so we're clear, you support a situation where actual hockey players are unable to play hockey due to the presence of these clowns? So just line up 3 of them, have them kick the tar out of anyone out there who actually wants to play hockey (assuming they don't just stay on the bench, I mean why bother coming out if the solution is to just not play). Sounds like an awesome game.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

The bolded part is only irrelevant to you, he didn't punch Kessel how hard is that to understand? If you watch the video he changes directions and goes after a different guy because he probably didn't really want to go after Kessel. He said himself he just lined up with who was out there.

No, actually it's irrelevant to the conversation I was having, that you clearly didn't follow. Scott's success, or even his actual intent, means nothing. What matters is what Kessel saw coming.

[$ven27]

Maybe the 2nd slash was a little dirty, but it's not like he would have hurt that beast anyways.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by valo403

No, actually it's irrelevant to the conversation I was having, that you clearly didn't follow. Scott's success, or even his actual intent, means nothing. What matters is what Kessel saw coming.

But that's just the point, it does matter because your assuming he was going to punch Kessel and by the events shown that clearly did not happen.

What about what Scott thought when Kessel reached up?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

But that's just the point, it does matter because your assuming he was going to punch Kessel and by the events shown that clearly did not happen.

What about what Scott thought when Kessel reached up?

No, it doesn't matter. You need to actually follow what was being discussed.

[StrykerSteve]

Not sure what the confusion is here... being big doesn't give anyone smaller than you the right to chop at you like a freaking lumberjack.

Scott's size is irrelevant. Kessell's a gutless puke that should have been suspended hard.

That's not even taking into consideration the fact that he could have taken out someone's eye with his backswings or followthroughs.

The NHL should be ashamed of itself.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Maybe the 2nd slash was a little dirty, but it's not like he would have hurt that beast anyways.

Have you seen some of the previous NHL slashes that led to injuries? It doesn't matter how big you are a 2 handed stick swing can badly injure a player, whats more is Kessel swings back before he swings forward and could have hit someone in the eye.

Edit: posted before I saw ^

[OzSome]

Why does a player gets suspended in the pre-season? What does it do? Why even bother? Pre-season is not an important games for any players especially the ones who already knew he is going to make the team. Pretty much a vacation for Kessel. I bet he is laughing now because he doesn't have to play the pre-season games anymore. I would rather see him get a 1 or 2 games suspension on a regular season. Team with suspended player should also lose one player, in this case Leafs can only dress 11 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The subsequent reactions and slashes, when the danger was no longer there, are acts of aggression and intent to injure.

This isn't true. I get that everyone is watching Kessel and his big "chop" on the second slash and seem to be ignoring everything else but there are two key points that seem to be getting lost.

1) If you stop watching the video in slow motion or frame-by-frame, Kessel's second shash is 2 seconds behind his first one. I highly doubt that Kessel makes the transition from self defense to aggression and intent to injure in that amount of time.

2) The danger is still there. If you look at Scott instead of Kessel what you will see (and what Kessel sees) is that Scott is now punching Kessel's defender in the face. Everything Kessel was worried about having happen to him is now happening to his teammate that came in to save him.

If anything happened, Kessel transitioned from self-defense to trying to help the guy that saved him as the danger transitioned from Kessel to Brennan.

I still wouldn't have given Kessel a suspension for that slash. 5-minute major is good enough considering what Scott is doing at the time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Not sure what the confusion is here... being big doesn't give anyone smaller than you the right to chop at you like a freaking lumberjack.

Scott's size is irrelevant. Kessell's a gutless puke that should have been suspended hard.

That's not even taking into consideration the fact that he could have taken out someone's eye with his backswings or followthroughs.

The NHL should be ashamed of itself.

So Kessel shouldn't be able to defend himself? He should just take his unprovoked beating?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Kessel was clearly POed at Scott, this wasn't an emotionless attack on Scott. It isn't Ted Lindsay hacking down people left and right, this is the first time he's really done anything dirty to another player, and he didn't touch another player, he wasn't running around hitting other people at all.

Didn't Kessel take some swings at Flyers defenceman Luke Schenn shins last week?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Not sure what the confusion is here... being big doesn't give anyone smaller than you the right to chop at you like a freaking lumberjack.

Scott's size is irrelevant. Kessell's a gutless puke that should have been suspended hard.

Being big doesn't give anybody the right to swing his stick at you.......but being big, strong, a proven fighter, and an NHL heavyweight who is trying to punch your face in gives you the right to self defense.

That's not even taking into consideration the fact that he could have taken out someone's eye with his backswings or followthroughs.

The NHL should be ashamed of itself.

We should suspend every high stick then too, those can take somebody's eye out. Hell so can shooting the puck above shoulder level, guess we should ban that too.

Know who used his stick to a great advantage since he was smaller then everybody else, Theo Fleury. When you are a smaller guy you need to use your stick to protect yourself every once in a while.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by valo403

So Kessel shouldn't be able to defend himself? He should just take his unprovoked beating?

Since when is a hockey stick a tool used to defend yourself?

You've got fists, use them. Who gives a flip how big the other guy is, he feels pain like anyone else does.

It's not like Kessell is a 98lb teenage girl.

He's 6'0, 202lbs. He's more than capable of taking a punch, and equally as capable of throwing one. Sure, that's not his game, but neither is cutting down trees.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Since when is a hockey stick a tool used to defend yourself?

You've got fists, use them. Who gives a flip how big the other guy is, he feels pain like anyone else does.

It's not like Kessell is a 98lb teenage girl.

He's 6'0, 202lbs. He's more than capable of taking a punch, and equally as capable of throwing one. Sure, that's not his game, but neither is cutting down trees.

Ridiculous. You expect Kessel to take on John Scott. Laughable.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Wolven

This isn't true. I get that everyone is watching Kessel and his big "chop" on the second slash and seem to be ignoring everything else but there are two key points that seem to be getting lost.

1) If you stop watching the video in slow motion or frame-by-frame, Kessel's second shash is 2 seconds behind his first one. I highly doubt that Kessel makes the transition from self defense to aggression and intent to injure in that amount of time.

2) The danger is still there. If you look at Scott instead of Kessel what you will see (and what Kessel sees) is that Scott is now punching Kessel's defender in the face. Everything Kessel was worried about having happen to him is now happening to his teammate that came in to save him.

If anything happened, Kessel transitioned from self-defense to trying to help the guy that saved him as the danger transitioned from Kessel to Brennan.

I still wouldn't have given Kessel a suspension for that slash. 5-minute major is good enough considering what Scott is doing at the time.

Clearly with Scott tied up his second slash is intent to injure, not self defense. Now you justify the second swing by saying he is swinging his stick to help his fellow player? So which is it, it's ok now to swing your stick to help your fellow players when there is a scuffle. BTW Kessel almost hit the ref who already was involved in the play doing his job.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by valo403

Ridiculous. You expect Kessel to take on John Scott. Laughable.

I'm not sure you're getting it here.... he could have KILLED someone swinging a piece of lumber like that.

You don't have to fight him, but by god, there should never be an excuse to do what he did.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I'm not sure you're getting it here.... he could have KILLED someone swinging a piece of lumber like that.

You don't have to fight him, but by god, there should never be an excuse to do what he did.

Killed someone by slashing them in the shins? That'd be a first. How worked up do you get about a cross check in the back in front of the net? That could conceivably kill someone too.

So what's he supposed to do? Just take a few punches to the head? How many people do you think die every year from getting punched in the head? I bet it's a lot more than die from getting slashed in padded shins.