[OOT] Melee between Toronto and Buffalo

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Back in minor hockey a team mate of mine was on a breakaway, and a kid gave him a 2 handed chop on the side of the shin pad. His stick broke and sliced into my friends calf and cut him pretty good. No permanent damage but he missed a lot of the season.

So really the argument of a harmless hack to the shin pad isn't the best, because you never really know what could happen.

Ah yes, because that one freak occurrence of a slash to the shin pad causing injury stacks up really well against the thousands upon thousands of times that a punch to the face has cause injury

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by valo403

Ah yes, because that one freak occurrence of a slash to the shin pad causing injury stacks up really well against the thousands upon thousands of times that a punch to the face has cause injury

Again...There was no punch to the face.

There were however 2 whacks to the leg.

Edit: Did anyone post the link about Clarkson thinking of appealing his suspension?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There is no way you know what his intent was. He didn't throw a single punch at Kessel. If he wanted to hurt him, he would have.

No, it's not. Players swinging their sticks ala baseball style is very, very dangerous.

^ Beaten to it again.

As mentioned, Scott's intent is painfully obvious. Hockey players don't drop their gloves and stick and start grabbing at and chasing a guy because they are looking to make new friends. If you think Scott's intent was anything other than to beat the stuffing out of Kessel then you are kidding yourself.

Also, I am not really arguing whether or not what Kessel did was dangerous, I don't think it matters either. The guy is acting in self defense against a much larger and more dangerous opponent. I say chop away.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1) there was no punch to the face

2) swinging a stick is using a weapon - to suggest the risk of injury is lower than from a punch is pretty ridiculous

As to the incident, the first hack I could somewhat forgive, as a reactionary, self-defense thing.

However, the second hack, and then the spear, are completely different - no self-defense there whatsoever.

1) There was no punch only because Kessel defended himself

2) Okay, you have 2 options. Get punched in the face by a 6'7" 270lb guy, or take a slash to your shin pads. You're telling me that your risk of injury is lower in the latter? Are you insane?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Again...There was no punch to the face.

There were however 2 whacks to the leg.

And why was there no punch to the face? Possibly because Kessel defended himself? Are you trying to tell me he needs to actually get punched before he can defend himself?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I just want to chime in on this as it is something that always bothers me.

Fighting is and always has been (as far back as I can tell) against the rules of hockey. There is a penalty for it no different than slashing. And while it may be argued that the penalty is moot for a number of reasons (both players tend to get penalized, it's not a very big deterrent, instigator rule, etc..), it IS against the rules.

Both are against the rules yes.

But a slash where it is deemed to be violent and using your stick as a weapon is a suspendable offense, what Scott did is not suspendable.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by valo403

1) There was no punch only because Kessel defended himself

2) Okay, you have 2 options. Get punched in the face by a 6'7" 270lb guy, or take a slash to your shin pads. You're telling me that your risk of injury is lower in the latter? Are you insane?

I don't know how many times you need to be told this but...

1) there was no punch

2) it was not a slash to the shin pads

3) the second slash had NOTHING to do with self-defense

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by valo403

1) There was no punch only because Kessel defended himself

2) Okay, you have 2 options. Get punched in the face by a 6'7" 270lb guy, or take a slash to your shin pads. You're telling me that your risk of injury is lower in the latter? Are you insane?

I really wonder how many people comparing being slashed and punched in the face have either been in a fight and punched in the face and taked a two handed chop to the lower shin/ankle.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by valo403

1) There was no punch only because Kessel defended himself

2) Okay, you have 2 options. Get punched in the face by a 6'7" 270lb guy, or take a slash to your shin pads. You're telling me that your risk of injury is lower in the latter? Are you insane?

Kessel didn't have to chop Scott at all. When he chops him the first time he is a stick length away, and right after that chop Scott is engaged by other players and is totally ignoring Kessel. Kessel then hacks him again when he isn't in any danger from Scott.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't know how many times you need to be told this but...

1) there was no punch

2) it was not a slash to the shin pads

3) the second slash had NOTHING to do with self-defense

1) Again, why was there no punch?

2) Yep, it was.

3) I'm not talking about the second slash

[theinfinitejar]

If Phil Kessel actually hurt John Scott and forced him to miss games he should probably get the Lady Byng by saving us all having to see that embarrassment on the ice.

The Sabres should thank him too, since John Scott is the biggest waste of a spot in the league.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by valo403

And why was there no punch to the face? Possibly because Kessel defended himself? Are you trying to tell me he needs to actually get punched before he can defend himself?

This is a stupid argument dude. I mean seriously being threatened with a punch is not a reason to use your stick as a weapon. No one would think less of Kessel if he staked away, there was no need to defend himself in that fashion.

Self defense is fine, but it has to be within reason, the moment you use excessive force it is no longer self defense.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I really wonder how many people comparing being slashed and punched in the face have either been in a fight and punched in the face and taked a two handed chop to the lower shin/ankle.

Been in plenty of both, would much prefer a chop to the shin pads, especially if the guy I'm fighting is John Scott. I'd take 20 chops to the shin pads over one shot from him.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

This is a stupid argument dude. I mean seriously being threatened with a punch is not a reason to use your stick as a weapon. No one would think less of Kessel if he staked away, there was no need to defend himself in that fashion.

Self defense is fine, but it has to be within reason, the moment you use excessive force it is no longer self defense.

And this is where we disagree, I don't think there was anything excessive about that first chop given the threat he faced.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Sorry if I missed this news being posted amidst the ongoing debate - NHL has fined the Buffalo coach an undisclosed amount for this incident.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=432665

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by valo403

And this is where we disagree, I don't think there was anything excessive about that first chop given the threat he faced.

a 2 handed baseball swing is not excessive? That's like saying saying it okay to slap your wife around because she has a smart mouth.

[MissTeeks]

NHL Public Relations‏@PR_NHL53m

Buffalo Sabres head coach Ron Rolston has been fined for player selection and team conduct: http://bit.ly/1bE8Vi9

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

a 2 handed baseball swing is not excessive? That's like saying saying it okay to slap your wife around because she has a smart mouth.

Yep, that's exactly what it's like. Really intelligent rebuttal there.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by valo403

And this is where we disagree, I don't think there was anything excessive about that first chop given the threat he faced.

So I guess if your a little guy you should be able to chop down all those 6"7 bullys. Kessel should have just told his mommy.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

a 2 handed baseball swing is not excessive? That's like saying saying it okay to slap your wife around because she has a smart mouth.

No. Its more like saying its ok to hack that guy who has 9 inches and 100 lbs on you in the leg before he knocks you the f*** out.

I'm not condoning what Kessel did afterwards and would have no problem with a suspension being given to him as well, but some of these comparables are ridiculous.