[OOT] Melee between Toronto and Buffalo

[CaptainCrunch]

What's going to damn Kessell is that his first slash, fine, but then Scott basically gets tied up and Kessel does another series of slashes. Then he skates back in later and throws a spear.

The first slash fine, you can argue that he was protecting himself. But there was no need for any additional stickwork.

The NHL isn't going to look kindly on lumberjack swings.

[CaptainCrunch]

BTW if I'm any coach in the NHL, I'm putting my biggest goon out against Kessel on a face off in the first period, his only job is to threaten him verbally and take a step at him. I'll trade a goon penalty for a Kessel toss out of the game and suspension every time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

There's no reasonable explanation why Kessel couldn't outskate John Scott. Just a dirty play on Kessel's part. The second and third attempts at stickwork were particularly cowardly.

Second and third sure, but I have no issue with the first one. First of all, it's into Scott's shin pads, so it isn't doing any damage. Second, Scott was out to do a heck of a lot more damage than Kessel was. Third, outskating isn't really an option until you extract yourself from the immediate vicinity, which is exactly what that first whack did.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

BTW if I'm any coach in the NHL, I'm putting my biggest goon out against Kessel on a face off in the first period, his only job is to threaten him verbally and take a step at him. I'll trade a goon penalty for a Kessel toss out of the game and suspension every time.

Which is why Kessel probably won't get a suspension at all.

The whole thing went down in under 5 seconds and it was all a result of Scott going after Kessel. People might not like how Kessel defended himself but the whole thing can be summed up as Kessel defending himself against a goon.

Personally, I think it is BS that people think Kessel should have evacuated the faceoff circle because Scott told him what was going to happen. So now all people have to do to win a faceoff is say "I'm going to beat you up" and wait for the other guy to run away when the puck drops. Lame.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by valo403

Second and third sure, but I have no issue with the first one. First of all, it's into Scott's shin pads, so it isn't doing any damage.

Looked more like his ankles than his shin pads to me.

Second, Scott was out to do a heck of a lot more damage than Kessel was.

Oh, you're a mind reader now? Scott didn't seem like he was out there to Bertuzzi Kessel. He was sent out to send a message but that doesn't mean he's looking to destroy a soft star player.

Third, outskating isn't really an option until you extract yourself from the immediate vicinity, which is exactly what that first whack did.

He doesn't have to lineup directly next to him. He can back up and give himself space before the puck is dropped.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Which is why Kessel probably won't get a suspension at all.

The whole thing went down in under 5 seconds and it was all a result of Scott going after Kessel. People might not like how Kessel defended himself but the whole thing can be summed up as Kessel defending himself against a goon.

The first slash can be considered defending himself but it is foolish to believe that the second slash and the spear had anything to do with defending himself.

Personally, I think it is BS that people think Kessel should have evacuated the faceoff circle because Scott told him what was going to happen. So now all people have to do to win a faceoff is say "I'm going to beat you up" and wait for the other guy to run away when the puck drops. Lame.

I think in that situation Kessel knew what was going on. It's wasn't a mind game and it was only a preseason game.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Which is why Kessel probably won't get a suspension at all.

The whole thing went down in under 5 seconds and it was all a result of Scott going after Kessel. People might not like how Kessel defended himself but the whole thing can be summed up as Kessel defending himself against a goon.

Personally, I think it is BS that people think Kessel should have evacuated the faceoff circle because Scott told him what was going to happen. So now all people have to do to win a faceoff is say "I'm going to beat you up" and wait for the other guy to run away when the puck drops. Lame.

you're completely ignoring the additional slashes and the skate in and spear. Kessel was no longer defending himself he became the aggressor and was using the lumber. That can't be justified under the current rules.

Its more up to his team mates then anything else. We were driven batschmit crazy last year when the Flames would have their goalie run or another player run and nobody would do anything.

As soon as Scott made his threat, then the simple answer is that Kessel lets his team mate know and swtiches positions in the face off with another player.

You can't swing your stick like a lumberjack like that especially aiming for the ankle area.

Scott was certainly an a$$ for attempting to retaliate for the earlier fight, but at that point he didn't really do anything wrong.

[united]

Can someone point out where the spear happens? It's been mentioned over and over but I've watched the video three times and can't see it...unless people think Kessel's little blade nudge is a spear.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by united

Can someone point out where the spear happens? It's been mentioned over and over but I've watched the video three times and can't see it...unless people think Kessel's little blade nudge is a spear.

Can someone show me where Scott attacks Kessel? I've watched the video three times and I can't see it...Unless people think that Scott not even throwing a punch at Kessel is attacking him.

[cubistcastle]

I think "spear" is being used a little liberally here. I would call that a tap. I understand the argument for a suspension because of the second slash, but I think you have to take the velocity and height of the slash into account. IMO, that's a slashing minor and nothing else. Call it cowardly all you want, but from my view there was no real intent to injure. Clarkson should be the only one receiving a suspension.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

I think "spear" is being used a little liberally here. I would call that a tap. I understand the argument for a suspension because of the second slash, but I think you have to take the velocity and height of the slash into account. IMO, that's a slashing minor and nothing else. Call it cowardly all you want, but from my view there was no real intent to injure. Clarkson should be the only one receiving a suspension.

No kidding. that wasn't a spear at all.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

you're completely ignoring the additional slashes and the skate in and spear. Kessel was no longer defending himself he became the aggressor and was using the lumber. That can't be justified under the current rules.

I am not ignoring anything. The whole "slash, slash, spear" takes place within 3 seconds. It took me more than 3 seconds to write that. This is the problem with slow motion replays and allowing people to micro-analyse every frame of a play.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As soon as Scott made his threat, then the simple answer is that Kessel lets his team mate know and swtiches positions in the face off with another player.

You can't swing your stick like a lumberjack like that especially aiming for the ankle area.

Scott was certainly an a$$ for attempting to retaliate for the earlier fight, but at that point he didn't really do anything wrong.

As soon as Scott made his threat, Kessel should have run away? That's BS. Goons should not be able to dictate how a faceoff is set up.

Would you respect Kessel more if he had stopped the faceoff to change positions or tell the refs what Scott said? Then you guys would be sitting here calling him a crybaby instead of a coward.

And I don't even like Kessel.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I am not ignoring anything. The whole "slash, slash, spear" takes place within 3 seconds. It took me more than 3 seconds to write that. This is the problem with slow motion replays and allowing people to micro-analyse every frame of a play.

Bunk go back and watch it, you can maybe justify the first slash, and call it a slashing major or even a gross misconduct. But Scott was tied up and not a threat on the second one a few seconds later. You're the one making thing

Originally Posted by Wolven

As soon as Scott made his threat, Kessel should have run away? That's BS. Goons should not be able to dictate how a faceoff is set up.

Huh, it happens all the time, that's what team mates do.

Originally Posted by Wolven

Would you respect Kessel more if he had stopped the faceoff to change positions or tell the refs what Scott said? Then you guys would be sitting here calling him a crybaby instead of a coward.

Yup because it would have been the smart play


And I don't even like Kessel.[/QUOTE]

[Engine09]

Seems like a few people are under the impression that a shin guard protects the front, sides and back of the leg. They protect from straight on shots but there is little protection on the sides and none on the back.

Kessel's hacks were not directly to the front of the shin guard.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by united

Can someone point out where the spear happens? It's been mentioned over and over but I've watched the video three times and can't see it...unless people think Kessel's little blade nudge is a spear.

Yeah that love tap to the pants where even a slapshot at 90 miles an hour wouldn't hurt, is what people are calling a spear.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Bunk go back and watch it, you can maybe justify the first slash, and call it a slashing major or even a gross misconduct. But Scott was tied up and not a threat on the second one a few seconds later. You're the one making thing

I've watched it. Nothing has changed. The whole thing goes down in 3 seconds. Scott says something. Kessel looks confused and goes to put his hand on Scott's back. Puck drops, Scott's gloves drop. Kessel starts backpeddling and throws out his two slashes and then is tied up with another player.

I'd give Kessel a 2-minute penalty for the slash. Maybe a 5 if you are really offended by how big of a swing he took but he was in control of his stick, hit the other guy in the pads and didn't cause any injury. But when you factor in the fact that the other guy is trying to physically attack him throughout the entire exchange I would bring it back down to 2 minutes. Either way, 0 game suspension.

Scott should get a penalty for instigating, another one for dropping his gloves when no one else did and then a fighting major and a game misconduct. Maybe suspend him for starting a full line brawl.

Clarkson gets a suspension for jumping on the ice.

Pretty much the same thing I've been saying this whole time.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

Seems like a few people are under the impression that a shin guard protects the front, sides and back of the leg. They protect from straight on shots but there is little protection on the sides and none on the back.

Kessel's hacks were not directly to the front of the shin guard.

I dunno, I was looking at new shin guards at Pro Hockey Life a couple weeks ago and the high end gear all had pretty serious protection on the sides and the back. Unless you get hit directly on the back of the knee you probably have plastic armor and padding absorbing the impact of the blow.

I doubt very many NHLers are using the cheap crappy gear of hockey's past. They get this stuff for free each season.

[old-fart]

Haven't watched it recently (but I did a few times last night), but I'd be forgiving of the first Kessel slash while Scott was moving towards him. The second one Scott was already tied up with another player and Kessel hacks him on the side to back of the leg with a pretty good two-hander. Kessel is then tied up with another player in his own scrap.

Much later, far longer than the 3 seconds you intimate, Scott is tied up with the linesman when Kessel skates by and spears him. Was it a vicious spear that could rupture his spleen... no. But it was still an intentional spear to a player already engaged with the linesman.

How Kessel doesn't get a suspension would be beyond me. 2 minutes for the first slash, 5 and a game and possibly a suspension for the second, and for sure a suspension for the spear. I'd probably give him 2 games to think about his idiocy.

Scott should get nothing extra. Ya, he tried to start a fight with another player who didn't want to go. That's 2 for unsportsmanlike, and if you want 2 for instigating and the game. Then he was jumped by multiple Leafs and fought his way out. 5 for fighting.

[Zevo]

McGrattans take on the whole thing. It's impossible not to like this guy. Lol, at the mandatory visor rule.

Although uncertain of what to make of it all — just like the league and most of its fans — McGrattan is sure that in 12 years of professional hockey he’s never tried to fight a star.

“I don’t know how much I’d get out of beating the (crap) out of a guy like that,” said McGrattan, arguably the game’s toughest hombre at 6-foot-4, 235 lb. and — for what it’s worth — has never fought Scott.

“It’ll just turn the visor into contacts for the guy if he wants it,” said McGrattan with a smirk on whether increased visors will curb fighting. “Put a full face-mask on the guy, I don’t care — I’ll rip it right off.”

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/09/24...ay-in-nhl-game

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I am not ignoring anything. The whole "slash, slash, spear" takes place within 3 seconds. It took me more than 3 seconds to write that. This is the problem with slow motion replays and allowing people to micro-analyse every frame of a play.

http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=nhl-latest/l...-latest/latest

The first slash happens at the 28 second mark, and the 2nd slash happens at the 31 second mark. The spear happens at the 2:31 mark of the video.

The first 2 slashes are within your 3 second window of themselves.

However the spear is a full 2 minutes after.