Canada’s first new refinery in decades breaks ground

[burn_this_city]

I could see the steel being fabricated in China, but I doubt they would bring in 100% TWFs to do the work. Despite what people think they aren't cheaper when you factor everything in, and there's no skirting OH&S regulations because you have a non-Canadian workforce. This refinery should have no trouble attracting workers because it's near Edmonton.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm sure they could find enough qualified construction workers from the States if we don't have enough in Canada. This looks like a way to get cheap labour while probably ignoring health and safety standards.

Why is the states better than China. Costs after shipping are actually getting comparable for modules coming out of the US and China depending on what you are building. Both places, as well as canada end up having similar quality problems.

Safety standards for the big international comanies are enforced and reported from their mod yards. The biggest reason this is becoming so prevekant is schedule. Cost is definately a factor but to meet schedule outsourcing work is required.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I never claimed it hadn't been thought through, nor that economic viability hadn't been considered. Thanks for being a #### though.

Well I have laugh a bit at your assertion that it seems pointless to produce diesel. To me it seems obvious the point would be to provide a product that they've determined is in demand, and to make money doing it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why is the states better than China. Costs after shipping are actually getting comparable for modules coming out of the US and China depending on what you are building. Both places, as well as canada end up having similar quality problems.

Safety standards for the big international comanies are enforced and reported from their mod yards. The biggest reason this is becoming so prevekant is schedule. Cost is definately a factor but to meet schedule outsourcing work is required.

I was talking about the final erection workers being brought in from China which I think is a crock.

I have to say though that I'm a member of an international construction union, so I'd rather see my fellow brothers from the States get the work if we can't handle it.

Concerning the modules, I'd still rather see the work done in North America. Our economies are interrelated and what's good for the USA is generally good for Canada. I don't see the same for China and I see the farming out of jobs to China as a bad habit which is going to bite us in the ass, as has happened in other sectors of the economy.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

Diesel only, seems kind of pointless.

I don't understand how that's possible. All feedstocks are going to have SR gasoline, and there will be a bottom to the barrel that they never will be able to upgrade up to diesel. It has to have lighter and heavier input does it not?

[Nufy]

Diesel, LPG & Kerosene for sure...

Waste CO2 to be sent to the trunk line.

All the rest will be sold off when available.

[Erick Estrada]

Diesel is making a big comeback in the automotive industry due to mpg and technological enhancements that make them almost as refined as gasoline engines. Audi's latest clean diesels are exceeding EPA ratings. 40+ mpg luxury cars are going to gain popularity;

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/aud...ive-2013-09-10

A few years ago VW was your only choice for a diesel sedan in North America but now Ford, GM, Mazda, etc are all offering diesel engines in many of their new sedans.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by fotze

Even with that the Diesel options in NA are shameful compared to other spots.

North America is behind but it's finally starting to gain some momentum as people realize that diesel doesn't necessarily mean loud and smelly. I'm considering going diesel for my wife's next vehicle.

[worth]

What about the most important consideration...power?

Diesel engines have historically been underpowerd in comparison to their gasoline counterparts. If diesel can produce the same output then it seems like a viable alternative.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by worth

What about the most important consideration...power?

Diesel engines have historically been underpowerd in comparison to their gasoline counterparts. If diesel can produce the same output then it seems like a viable alternative.

That's why most diesel engines are mated with a turbocharger. Diesel's produce more torque than gasoline engines so while they may not have the higher top end power of a gasoline engine many of the new engines are torque monsters and are plenty quick enough to get people around.

[Bill Bumface]

The BMW 335d was 265hp, 425 ft-lbs of torque, so definitely no slouch.

[worth]

I just remember from old Top Gear episodes them going on about how diesel engines sucked because there was no power. I think a lot has changed in engine technology in 10 years. Even for gasoline engines, the power output some of these smaller engines are putting out is insane.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I was talking about the final erection workers being brought in from China which I think is a crock.

I have to say though that I'm a member of an international construction union, so I'd rather see my fellow brothers from the States get the work if we can't handle it.

Concerning the modules, I'd still rather see the work done in North America. Our economies are interrelated and what's good for the USA is generally good for Canada. I don't see the same for China and I see the farming out of jobs to China as a bad habit which is going to bite us in the ass, as has happened in other sectors of the economy.

What with the US blocking Keystone, they can suck it on getting the work for this job.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by worth

What about the most important consideration...power?

Diesel engines have historically been underpowerd in comparison to their gasoline counterparts. If diesel can produce the same output then it seems like a viable alternative.

As others have said it is torque that is probably the key variable when getting off the line and merging for most city drivers. Diesels have significantly more torque and lower RPMs. Its also why electric engines can be significantly less powerful in terms of HP and produce a similar driving experience for the average person. Electrics produce constant torque regarless of RPM.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by zuluking

What with the US blocking Keystone, they can suck it on getting the work for this job.

That's a childish attitude. You do what's best for the company and what's best for the province and the country. The blocking of Keystone is probably one of the reasons this plant is being built.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The blocking of Keystone is probably one of the reasons this plant is being built.

Keystone/Gateway/Energy East have nothing to do with the location of upgrading/refining. Pipeline companies don't care what they ship, they only care about what their utilization is.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

That's a childish attitude. You do what's best for the company and what's best for the province and the country. The blocking of Keystone is probably one of the reasons this plant is being built.

Exactly. Thus the Chinese.

(and CP is a great place to be mindlessly childish. Everyone so serious and everything.)

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

Diesel only, seems kind of pointless.

Yeah, pointless considering everything in your house was transported by a vehicle powered by a diesel engine at one point or another.

[wookster]

It looks like the rumours about Chinese temp workers may be false...This quote is from NWU's website in their career section:

North West Upgrading (NWU) are not searching for any temporary foreign workers related to the construction activities of our bitumen refinery directly or through agencies and any representation of a third party advertising that they are hiring foreign workers for labour positions in relation to our project are fradulent.

Neither North West Upgrading (NWU) nor any contractor acting on our behalf have a Labour Market Opinion (LMO) for foreign construction labour.

Link Here: http://nwu.hgcareers.com/js/

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by wookster

It looks like the rumours about Chinese temp workers may be false...This quote is from NWU's website in their career section:



Link Here: http://nwu.hgcareers.com/js/

That cant be true. Organized labour would never try to use scare tactics like this. They must be importing thousands of Jackie Chans.