[Signing] Oilers sign RNH to contract extension (7 yrs)

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I am saying that there were a lot of people here at CP who wrongly thought that Iginla was worth 3 1st round draft picks... or Brayden Schenn plus picks and prospects or Jeff Carter.

What a few people on this site believed has no bearing on what RNH is worth in reality.

Obviously RHN will bring in more than a late first round and 2 marginal prospects, but he would not get anywhere close to what the Leafs gave up for Kessel for instance.

That's debatable. Not anywhere close? I bet he could.

Do you think Columbus would give the Oilers Horton who they signed for 7 years at 5.3?

Well, the Jackets just signed him so they won't trade him anyway. And I'm not sure the Oilers would even want him.

No body wants to come out and say what they think RHN is worth.

I hate making trade proposals so it's hard for me to say what he would be worth. But I think he's worth quite a bit more than what you believe he is.

Because of his physique and style of play he will not be a prototypical franchise centre like Kopitar or Getzlaff, or Toews or Staal or Tavares, or Backes or Spezza.

I agree to some extent, but even if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar doesn't mean he'll be garbage, either. He's a very good offensive player with a lot of potential. A little early to be writing him off already.

[ricardodw]

sorry to have to bring statistics into as so many folks here just like to make judgements based on feelings but here is a list of the great young players that the teams locked up instead of bridging them to their 2nd RFA contract.

player -- games -- goals -- pts -- contract --
Benn -- 222 -- 70 -- 160 -- 5 yrs @ 5.25 -- after 3 years
Evander Kane -- 213 -- 63 -- 126 -- 6 yrs @ 5.15 -- after 3 yrs
Tavares -- 161 -- 53 -- 121 -- 6 yrs @ 5.5M -- after 2 years
Eberle -- 147 -- 52 -- 119 -- 6 yrs @ 6M -- after 2 years
Skinner -- 146 -- 51 -- 107 -- 6yrs @5.725 -- after 2 years
Hall -- 126 -- 49 -- 95 -- 7 yrs @ 6M -- after 2 years
Sequin -- 155 -- 40 -- 89 -- 6 yrs @ 5.75 -- after 2 years
Nugent-Hopkins -- 102 -- 22 -- 76 -- 7 yrs @ 6M -- after 2 years
Landeskog -- 118 -- 31 -- 69 -- 7 yrs @5.57 -- after 2 years


Please explain to me the intangibles that the Edmonton 3 bring to the table than the other 6 guys do.


Lowe messed up the offer sheets with Penner and now looks to be trying to push envelope with what guys with a year left on ELC will be expecting.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by stamphater

Players who are competitors play with heart no matter the situation. Look at Hall last season or Crosby any season. Name any number of players. If a player plays strictly based on where he is on his contract; well those guys wind up on other teams pretty quickly anyways...

Cammalleri anyone?

Alexander Ovechkin.

Got paid and then coincidentally his numbers declined rather drastically.

Sure, just trade him. Oh yeah, hes being paid a massive salary that very few teams can accommodate along with the fact that his return value has declined along with his point production.

Oh. And his NMC.

Long term deals where you're paying for potential are risky gambles.

This isnt the worst deal in the universe (looking at you Scott Gomez) but it wasnt a great gamble either. You've got a tiny, oft-injured kid with a very limited body of work and a high risk of reinjury.

In my eyes, thats begging for a 'Show Me' contract, not a truckload of cash that effectively amounts to ironclad job security.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I think that you are comparing some players who are worse - look at Jeff Skinner, he had a pretty big sophomore slump and didn't really improve last year. Look at Taylor Hall in comparison, he didn't have as good of a rookie season, but every season since he has dramatically out produced Skinner. Same thing with Seguin - you are not only paying for past performance but also for future potential and with the exception of Tavares I think that the three Oilers players have the potential to be better... and when you factor in inflation I don't think that the Oilers contracts are that off the mark.

As for Jamie Benn you are comparing a player who broke into the league at 20 to someone who broke into the league at 18.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

As for Jamie Benn you are comparing a player who broke into the league at 20 to someone who broke into the league at 18.

While I'm not comparing RNH to Benn, there is a difference between "breaking into the league at 20" and being forced into the league too early because of a bad lineup. Which, most likely, is what is leading to all of these RNH injuries.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I agree to some extent, but even if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar doesn't mean he'll be garbage, either. He's a very good offensive player with a lot of potential. A little early to be writing him off already.

I agree with your assessment.

I am not writing him off. From what I have seen I would not want to go into a playoff series with him as the Flames #1 centre.

$42M guaranteed no matter how he reaches his potential he plays is a pretty big commitment.

If any of the big 3 top out at the level they have reached that severely limits how good a team the Oilers become.


These are the kind of contracts that Chicago gave Toews and Kane AFTER they had a great playoff run and Knocked off the Flames and the Canucks....



AND even then they were not extended until they showed they were still great for the first 2 months of their last year on ELC.

None of the 3 Oiler stars have come close to showing they are Kane or Toews. Yet they are all getting paid as if they did.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames would give Cammalleri and Stajan.

Please provide who you think the Oilers could get for the $6M RNH even up.


Would the Flames give them Monahan? How about Gaudreau?

The Avs's Landeskog or Duchense ? Perhaps they could get RoR from the Av's as his contract is so messed up...... which would make the Oilers stronger.

The 5.5M / year for the next 5 year Tavares from the Islanders? Wait for the Islander's laughter to subside.

He is a very talented , small and brittle centre. Is he a franchise centre? Maybe..... if he gets to play between Lucic and Horton/Iginla.

Just about anybody in the league.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

While I'm not comparing RNH to Benn, there is a difference between "breaking into the league at 20" and being forced into the league too early because of a bad lineup. Which, most likely, is what is leading to all of these RNH injuries.

I agree in part, however Hopkins was too good to send down to the WHL, the risk that I can see is potentially stalling his development. I can see both sides of the argument, I do think that it would have been good for him to go back to junior and bulk up more. I don't know if it was because of a bad lineup - the Oilers were not going to make the playoffs with or without Hopkins in the lineup, so I don't see that as being a driving factor. The fact that he got a hat-trick in his first couple games did show he had the skill though.

[Sylvanfan]

Right now Chicago wish they had signed Kane and Loews for 7 years at their current cap numbers.

[ricardodw]

Please provide who you think the Oilers could get for the $6M RNH even up.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just about anybody in the league.

Kevin.... Kevin Lowe is that really you?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

On the Flames, who wouldn't you trade for Nugent-Hopkins?

[puckluck2]

He has the body of a 12 year old girl and couple that with the Oilers forcing players to play while injured I'd bet good money he doesn't play more games than he sits out.

He's going to make Ales Hemsky look like an iron man.

[JobHopper]

Seems like a long contract for a player with just 2 seasons under his belt,one a shortened one. I'd have to give it a thumbs down, same with the money. Why not just go 4 years?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There is no way that RNH @ 6M / yr for 7 years and Edmonton's 2014 first and 2011 1st round pick #19 overall Oscar Klefbom would get Bobby Ryan.

As an Oiler fan, no way I make that trade.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

As an Oiler fan, no way I make that trade.

Good you don't have to worry about it. The Ducks only dumped Ryan because at 5.1M he was making too much. They wouldn't be able to take on the RHN contract.

Ryan has 4 30 goal seasons while the Money line in Edmonton has already had 1 guy with a 34 goal season.

Ryan has also 10 goals in his 26 playoff games. The Money Line might be great in the playoffs. We may never find out.

[The Yen Man]

Smart deal by RNH imo. I'm thinking he's going to be overpaid for at least 3 years of that contract. By years 4, 5, and 6 he'll be making market value. By age 27, he'll be in his prime and if he had progressed like how Oiler fans hope, he'll be in the best spot to max his dollar value.

So really, he's signed for above market value IMO, because he'll get more money than he should the first 3 years, and at best, market value for the last 3 years. The only advantage the Oilers get is having him locked up for 6 years.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Kevin.... Kevin Lowe is that really you?

That's pretty funny man.

Your assertion that RNH is somehow bad value because of his new contract is downright hilarious though.

There isnt a single team in the NHL that wouldn't want to add this kid to their roster at that salary, not one. There are even fewer players that wouldnt be in play to acquire him if existing salaries etc werent part of the equation. Maybe 15 or so league wide. He is viewed as having franchise player talent, and being only 20 has a long leash to prove it.

Suggesting otherwise is just goofy.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Good you don't have to worry about it. The Ducks only dumped Ryan because at 5.1M he was making too much. They wouldn't be able to take on the RHN contract.

Ryan has 4 30 goal seasons while the Money line in Edmonton has already had 1 guy with a 34 goal season.

Ryan has also 10 goals in his 26 playoff games. The Money Line might be great in the playoffs. We may never find out.

Well that and you know...they didnt have cap room for him this year....never mind they are WAY over internal budget right now.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

On the Flames, who wouldn't you trade for Nugent-Hopkins?

For me Monahan would be the only guy that I would have to think about.

[PeteMoss]

This is a fine contract. You can mock the Oilers for tons of things - how they've messed up every pick besides the first one and will still struggle to make the playoffs with all of these guys for instance - but hating on this contract isn't one of them.