Via train VS City Bus = 6 fatalaties in Ottawa

[speede5]

This is just my opinion, but I bet he just didn't realize where he was. Those bus lanes in Ottawa are made for buses to book it, and he was relatively new to the route. If you look at the train, he hit the engine, so it was just entering the intersection too. Maybe he never saw it initially, and was looking the other way, you always check both ways right? I guess there's a good reason school buses have to stop at crossings regardless of whether there's a train or not. I think it was just a tragic accident, nothing netharious or negligent.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by speede5

This is just my opinion, but I bet he just didn't realize where he was. Those bus lanes in Ottawa are made for buses to book it, and he was relatively new to the route. If you look at the train, he hit the engine, so it was just entering the intersection too. Maybe he never saw it initially, and was looking the other way, you always check both ways right? I guess there's a good reason school buses have to stop at crossings regardless of whether there's a train or not. I think it was just a tragic accident, nothing netharious or negligent.

Seems plausible, and witnesses did say he braked at the last second, so I think that rules out a medical problem that would have caused him to lose consciousness. I was thinking that maybe he dozed off and woke up at the last second.

But if how you described it is how it happened, then I would call that negligent. Still an accident, but an accident due to driver negligence.

[speede5]

Ya, I guess I'm thinking more blatant or criminal when I say negligent. I just don't think the driver needs to be painted in a bad light, he probably just made a mistake, and it was much more costly than the ones most people make everyday.

Accidents happen, that's why they aren't called On Purposes. Hopefully they can pinpoint some of the factors and put in some preventative measures.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by speede5

Ya, I guess I'm thinking more blatant or criminal when I say negligent. I just don't think the driver needs to be painted in a bad light, he probably just made a mistake, and it was much more costly than the ones most people make everyday.

Accidents happen, that's why they aren't called On Purposes. Hopefully they can pinpoint some of the factors and put in some preventative measures.

Yeah, for sure. If this is the case, it's the same type of mistake that leads to thousands of fender benders everyday where no one gets hurt and could happen to anyone.

[OffsideSpecialist]

The only place I heard about him braking was from some guy on the train...people seem skeptical of that. Also, because of the curve, tracks and pulling into the station, the speed limit is only 50 through there if I recall correctly, also he has been a driver for 10 years, and that segment of transitway has been around for the last 3, imo no chance he just doesn't know where he is.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

The only place I heard about him braking was from some guy on the train...people seem skeptical of that. Also, because of the curve, tracks and pulling into the station, the speed limit is only 50 through there if I recall correctly, also he has been a driver for 10 years, and that segment of transitway has been around for the last 3, imo no chance he just doesn't know where he is.

I'll see if I can find it, but I know that I read yesterday that an eyewitness from behind the bus said that the brake lights came on just before it was hit.

Edit:

Here it is:

Cristina Pecora was also stopped waiting for the train to pass when she saw the bus going "way, way too quickly" towards the gates and flashing lights.
"I thought to myself - he's not stopping," the Barrhaven woman said.

"Then the brake lights went on, he was trying to stop the last few seconds."

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/09/18/...us-slams-train

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'll see if I can find it, but I know that I read yesterday that an eyewitness from behind the bus said that the brake lights came on just before it was hit.

Edit:

Here it is:



http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/09/18/...us-slams-train

Seeing the brake lights come on does not necessarily mean a driver is putting the brakes on. Most of the transit buses here in Calgary (all of the newer buses) are equipped with a transmission ######er, and when you let off the gas, the ######er kicks in and the brake lights will turn on because you are slowing the bus down when using this. This would provide a reasonable explanation for why some witnesses would see the brake lights come on without the actual brakes of the bus being applied.

As for whether the driver was familiar with the route or not, I believe this is a bit of a red herring since a driver paying attention should not miss a controlled rail crossing with it's lights activated.

[Hockeyguy15]

If he did infact apply the brakes, don't you think there would be skid marks? If you are going 50km/h and all of the sudden you see the train you are probably going to slam on the breaks, not just tap them so you slow down at a normal pace.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Cuz

Seeing the brake lights come on does not necessarily mean a driver is putting the brakes on. Most of the transit buses here in Calgary (all of the newer buses) are equipped with a transmission ######er, and when you let off the gas, the ######er kicks in and the brake lights will turn on because you are slowing the bus down when using this. This would provide a reasonable explanation for why some witnesses would see the brake lights come on without the actual brakes of the bus being applied.

As for whether the driver was familiar with the route or not, I believe this is a bit of a red herring since a driver paying attention should not miss a controlled rail crossing with it's lights activated.

Oh, ok... I didn't realize that. So he either let off the gas at the last moment or braked. Someone on the bus said that the driver braked as well though.

This will be important to figuring out if they want to know if he was conscious or not at the time. I think it's "cleaner" if they can assume that it was a health issue and not driver error.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

If he did infact apply the brakes, don't you think there would be skid marks? If you are going 50km/h and all of the sudden you see the train you are probably going to slam on the breaks, not just tap them so you slow down at a normal pace.

Hard to say. Not if he used threshold braking or didn't brake long enough to lock the tires.

[ken0042]

Many years ago when going from Grande Prairie to Edmonton for a concert on a charter bus, our driver had a stroke behind the wheel. We almost side swiped a semi in the oncoming lane (and huge credit to the semi driver; not sure how he moved in time) and we were knocking down those lane markers that are on the side of the road. However our driver was still lucid enough that he thought we were trying to hijack the bus when we were pulling him out of his seat.

Having seen it first hand, I can see how it's possible that the driver had some sort of attack but still managed to try the brakes at the last second. Or as Cuz pointed out; at least taken his foot off the gas.

[Cuz]

From experience, it is very easy to become distracted when driving a transit bus. It really does take a lot of concentration to be 100% focused on the road and when you have a passenger inquiry, it takes a lot of effort to keep focused on the road while still providing customer service and that is just from a simple question, not someone shoving an address in your face (which I actually have had happen). I always tell my passengers that the best time to ask a driver about an address you're looking for is when you enter the bus as the bus is stopped and it is safe for me to look up the address if I am not familiar with it and you won't miss your stop as well.

I just hope that the driver was not using his cell phone as has been speculated. Distractions happen, but a distraction from using your own phone while driving is, in my mind, inexcusable for a professional driver.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by speede5

Ya, I guess I'm thinking more blatant or criminal when I say negligent. I just don't think the driver needs to be painted in a bad light, he probably just made a mistake, and it was much more costly than the ones most people make everyday.

Accidents happen, that's why they aren't called On Purposes. Hopefully they can pinpoint some of the factors and put in some preventative measures.

This is not how industry sees this, all accidents are preventable.

I seriously hope they make some changes. Calgary Transit is no different, This could have been Calgary.

[Devils'Advocate]

How can they make changes if they have no idea what happened?

The driver's wife was on the radio pleading with people to stop blaming her husband and claiming he was negligent before there is *any* proof. It is just tarring his memory.

What she said in the interview:
- her husband had a SPOTLESS driving record and was an EXTREMELY safe driver
- while it was true they had gone out the night before, he didn't drink to much and was 100% awake and completely sober when he left for work in the morning

She asked that people wait until there is an official finding before calling her husband negligent/incompetent. It's been very upsetting to her and her family to see a husband and a father being blamed for the deaths of those that were killed before the evidence has even been collected, much less analysed.

[Art Vandelay]

Just saw that the family confirmed that the bus driver had diabetes or at least a low level of it.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Just saw that the family confirmed that the bus driver had diabetes or at least a low level of it.

I thought I read the wife said he was in "perfect health."

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How can they make changes if they have no idea what happened?

The driver's wife was on the radio pleading with people to stop blaming her husband and claiming he was negligent before there is *any* proof. It is just tarring his memory.

What she said in the interview:
- her husband had a SPOTLESS driving record and was an EXTREMELY safe driver
- while it was true they had gone out the night before, he didn't drink to much and was 100% awake and completely sober when he left for work in the morning

She asked that people wait until there is an official finding before calling her husband negligent/incompetent. It's been very upsetting to her and her family to see a husband and a father being blamed for the deaths of those that were killed before the evidence has even been collected, much less analysed.

Everybody has a spotless record and thinks they are safe drivers....until they dont or aren't any longer.

Not saying in any way that this was his fault as we dont know yet, but claims like this mean nothing afterwards if in fact he made a mistake and/or something had him lose focus.

[Devils'Advocate]

So nobody can ever claim they are a safe driver, ever?

OCTranspo has stated the same as the wife. Experienced driver with a spotless record when it comes to driving safely. I think his past history might give people pause before claiming he was a negligent driver. I guess people just need SOMEONE to blame when something like this happens, no matter how unfair it is to the family.

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I thought I read the wife said he was in "perfect health."

Yup, she said he was in good health: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle14443159/

[Devils'Advocate]

You can have mild diabetes and still be in "good health". Just depends on your definition of "good health".