13 years after 9/11, the world shift

[troutman]

Ground Zero Supertower on season premiere of NOVA tonight.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by jofillips

yea it kinda struck home to America what terrorism is - a lot of the world has known it now for over 40 years.
I remember the IRAs actions in Britain growing up - innocent people being attacked in Ulster and the mainland, kinda reinforces why terrorism can never be allowed to work.
Ironic that US citizens were directly funding the bombs and guns used in the Troubles.

and now the president wants to directly fund the weapons and bombs to them again in Syria

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by jofillips

yea it kinda struck home to America what terrorism is - a lot of the world has known it now for over 40 years.
I remember the IRAs actions in Britain growing up - innocent people being attacked in Ulster and the mainland, kinda reinforces why terrorism can never be allowed to work.
Ironic that US citizens were directly funding the bombs and guns used in the Troubles.

Not all of them they weren't. But you seem to have omitted mention that side of the story,

What you say is true but why do you only present a half truth? i.e. You fail to mention the British state sponsored loyalist death squads responsible for more than half of the deaths of the innocent people that you speak of.

Apologies for going slightly OT for a bit but I can't stand these sort of half truth posts. I don't know whether they're borne out of ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead. Present the full story.

There was more than one side to Terrorism in that conflict, both equally as bad as the other.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by polak

Proved that Terrorism works.

Really? How so?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Watching the World Change

Spoiler!

Imagine if the same picture was taken today. All you would see is smartphones and tablets held in front of everyones faces.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Really? How so?

Been through air port security lately?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Been through air port security lately?

Yes, a mild inconvenience when we fly now means that the terrorists have ruined our way of life.

Get real. I can't imagine making me wait in line an extra twenty minutes was what they had in mind when they hijacked those planes.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Yes, a mild inconvenience when we fly now means that the terrorists have ruined our way of life.

Get real. I can't imagine making me wait in line an extra twenty minutes was what they had in mind when they hijacked those planes.

Fear, paranoia and disrupting the way people live thier life was very much the goal of terrorists. When planes started to fly after 9/11 anyone who resembled a Muslim was pointed out by passenegers and asked that he/she be pulled off flights. Fears of someone possibly bringing a bomb on board lead to restrictions on liquids. It goes on and on.

[polak]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Really? How so?

How many trillions have been spent on the War on Terror, the official response to 9/11? How many more hundreds of thousands have been killed in that war? How is the paranoia and privacy concerns? Think about all the resources that have been drained by the US and compare that to the expenses of these terror attacks.

Quite the efficient way to go to war with an enemy.

[Daradon]

While I agree that the attacks had a more far reaching effect than just the death and damage of the crashes, I think the OP blames too much on the attacks.

The decline of the US and the problems with their government had started before that. There were already articles about the decline of the US, China taking over, the emergence of the BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China).

As well, I still think Bush woulda gone into Iraq anyway, he (his org, Cheney, Rummy, etc.) seemed hell bent on doing that.

It's hard to say just how much Bush would have sucked without 9/11, but I have a feeling he still woulda screwed things up royally.

Also hard to blame the housing/default credit swap on 9/11. I know that wasn't in the post, but it's a big part of the decline and had nothing to do with 9/11.

Don't forget, he opened the door wide for the crazy religious right into modern government, which is another big problem with how politics is done now in the US.

Agree on the basic idea, but a lot of weight put on '4 planes'. Far too much in my opinion. The fall of the US (and the EU) was already in the works.

[Street Pharmacist]

The biggest change is the un-measurable one: Insecurity

Insecurity is the reason we have so much airport security

Insecurity is the reason for the current deep political divide

Insecurity had a hand in such a deep and long recession

It's that feeling that something big and bad is going to happen. And soon.


It is important to note that it affected the middle east and the West really. This insecurity is not likely felt to the same extent in the majority of the rest of the world

[Table 5]

[jayswin]

Haha, they went all out!

[Knalus]

I wonder about something that I haven't been hearing these last few months. I wonder if it is because of what the Captain said in his original post, about how we are more divided than ever. Wasn't the Iraq war all about WMD's? I know it really wasn't, but if you listened to the news at the time, that's all you heard, WMD's this, WMD's that. THey didn't even say "Weapons of Mass Destruction", it was just WMD's. And it was pretty vague, too. WMD's meant Nuclear weapons, it meant Dirty bombs, and it meant Chemical and Biological weapons. It was very heavily used, and it was a justification for everything.

Skip ahead to now. Syria uses Chemical weapons against it's own people. Not WMD's, chemical weapons. It's as if the word has been scrubbed from the vocabulary. Not one mention of WMD's. Which is so weird, because Obama is trying to get republicans - the ones responsible for using WMD's as the catchall frightening phrase - to attack Syria because of their use of something that COULD be called WMD's. Could you imagine republicans voting against something like that 8 years ago, especially with the term WMD's? Heck, you could almost make the case that Syria had joined the "Axis of Evil"...

What happened to the phrase? And why do we not hear it anymore? Is it because Obama is a democrat, as opposed to a republican? Just seems... off.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Table 5

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I wonder about something that I haven't been hearing these last few months. I wonder if it is because of what the Captain said in his original post, about how we are more divided than ever. Wasn't the Iraq war all about WMD's? I know it really wasn't, but if you listened to the news at the time, that's all you heard, WMD's this, WMD's that. THey didn't even say "Weapons of Mass Destruction", it was just WMD's. And it was pretty vague, too. WMD's meant Nuclear weapons, it meant Dirty bombs, and it meant Chemical and Biological weapons. It was very heavily used, and it was a justification for everything.

Skip ahead to now. Syria uses Chemical weapons against it's own people. Not WMD's, chemical weapons. It's as if the word has been scrubbed from the vocabulary. Not one mention of WMD's. Which is so weird, because Obama is trying to get republicans - the ones responsible for using WMD's as the catchall frightening phrase - to attack Syria because of their use of something that COULD be called WMD's. Could you imagine republicans voting against something like that 8 years ago, especially with the term WMD's? Heck, you could almost make the case that Syria had joined the "Axis of Evil"...

What happened to the phrase? And why do we not hear it anymore? Is it because Obama is a democrat, as opposed to a republican? Just seems... off.

I think you won't hear that because it references a failed war where there weren't any WMDs.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think you won't hear that because it references a failed war where there weren't any WMDs.

But this time there ARE. Just seems like so much duckspeak to me. All these newly invented phrases and terms to make people think a certain way politically.

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I'm doubly sickened that the collapse of the WTC buildings is being commemorated by Tumbledown Trails.

[Table 5]

What's also great about that one is that 18 holes is actually more expensive than the 9 holes down twice.

[Flabbibulin]

Bit of a tangent here, but still fairly related to greater discussion- the WMD fiasco in Iraq, along with other high profile events of the last 10 years, have made American's increasingly distrustful and and skeptical of their government. I think a large number of Americans were inclined to feel this way anyway, but the US government's mismanagement and questionable approach to 2001-2013 events like the financial crisis, Hurricane Katrina, the NSA Snowden affair has really contributed to this sentiment. As a result, many people have the presupposition that the American government is evil and out to get them, and therefore view all world events with this in mind.

As an example, the "9/11 truth" movement is not rooted in the facts of 9/11 (obviously), but rather is a fallout and consequence of the WMD fiasco in Iraq. Get caught doing one bad thing or telling one lie, and you are going to be accused of 3 or 4 more bad things, regardless of how implausible they are.