Individual Income Poll

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by fotze

Luckily I do neither, because they both seem (are) awful, also don't know any engineers who are unfortunate to have those jobs though I know they exist. The downstream of the wellhead stuff is pretty boring.

I have always thought and continue to think you have a warped view of the oilpatch. There is a reason these oilmen build and sell companies over and over and are worth vast sums of money that they do not have to work for generation. Like Jim Gray, 80 yr old guy starting a new company. I am sure you will say its greed and its part of that, but it is extremely exciting. Its like VLT's but with much better odds and your skill actually determines how well you do.

If you are gambling on spending $7MM on drilling this well, something that could make or break the company, its exciting.

Maybe I am biased because I spent the 1st 5 years of my career working for the environment telling myself that at least I had job satisfaction because I was 'protecting the public'. I know a crappy, soul destroying job when I see one.

Then that answers Muta's question pretty clearly - some people really do get excitement out of the industry and what they do. And that's good - it means they bring a passion to the industry that is required to keep it as strong as it is.

I think Muta might be referring to "pie in the sky" career choices, and how many people actually follow through on making it a reality. Most people in this world never get that pie, for many different reasons - happiness, comfort zone, persoal circumstances, golden handcuffs, etc.

I'm in software and I benefit quite tremendously from the O&G industry. However, I'm glad I have a skillset where I can branch out from just one industry - and I believe that skillset can make me happy even if I choose to totally reverse roles / location in my career. Because of that, I feel personally satisfied that I can grow and expand my career the way I want to, and not be bound by one field of work or industry. And, of course, it's how much you want to push yourself.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by fotze

Maybe I am biased because I spent the 1st 5 years of my career working for the environment telling myself that at least I had job satisfaction because I was 'protecting the public'. I know a crappy, soul destroying job when I see one.

Are you still doing HSE work?

No matter what you are doing, you have to get excitement and some kind of personal satisfaction and self-development out of your work. I think the real soul-destroying jobs are the clerical/process/admin/invoicing jobs where you are not contributing your own creativity and knowledge to advance the business in some way but rather just working through stacks of repetitive paperwork, records, files, and numbers. There are plenty of those in the oilpatch. It wouldn't work without them.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by fotze

I have always thought and continue to think you have a warped view of the oilpatch. There is a reason these oilmen build and sell companies over and over and are worth vast sums of money that they do not have to work for generation. Like Jim Gray, 80 yr old guy starting a new company. I am sure you will say its greed and its part of that, but it is extremely exciting. Its like VLT's but with much better odds and your skill actually determines how well you do.

Maybe I do have a warped view of it. I see everyone trying to get into it (we are in Calgary, after all), and yet everyone will tell you it's because they are highly interested in it. Sure. I'm positive that if the nuclear waste disposal industry, or the retail industry, paid just as much as oil and gas these people would be 'highly interested' in that, too.

My GF works in O+G, and from what I see and what she's told me, there's alot of people making alot of money. Maybe too much for what many of them do / how smart they are, and always going to 'industry events', getting time off, not really ever having to work THAT hard. It's very money-dominated, and very buddy-buddy, 'you ain't gettin' in unless you know somebody'. That's fine, it really is... definitely not knocking that, that's how business works.

As for starting oil and gas companies, it is greed-dominated, you bet. That's exactly why rich oilmen do it - to turn a profit. If they were so interested in the entrenpreneurial aspect as a challenge, as you say, they'd try starting a company in a non-traditional industry or market for the sole purpose of being challenged and making it succeed. Unfortunately, your example of it being exciting doesn't really hold much water in this argument given the industry that they're in / the connections they have / the end result they've come to expect over several times. It is very money-dominated.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Hesla

http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-...es-canada.html

Average hourly salary

1. Retail Sales / Sales Clerk $14
2. Data Entry Clerk $16
3. Bookkeeper $18
4. Accounting Clerk $19
5. Truck Driver $21
6. Carpenter $22
7. Executive Assistant $23
8. Plumber $25
9. Electrician $25
10. Social Worker $29
11. Architect $30
12. Registered Nurse $34
13. Physiotherapist $34
14. Computer Engineer (not software) $35
15. Lawyer $40
16. Computer and Info Systems Manager $40
17. Engineering Manager $43
18. Dentist $70

Electricians and RN's are making $45-50 an hour in Edmonton. That puts you in the ballpark of $100,000 per year without even taking into account any overtime worked.

$22, and $25 for carpenters and plumbers sounds like something a first year apprentice would make.

PS. You don't have to know anybody to get into the Oil business. They are usually begging for people.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Muta

Here's a question, and it's one people, I've found, can't answer honestly a lot of the time:

.. do you actually like O+G? Do you have a real, genuine interest in it? Is it something that you can't imagine yourself doing without? Or, if you were at home dreaming of something to do that excited you, it would be oil and gas?

Or are you interested in it because of the money?

Just curious.

I'm in Supply Chain (back on the Logistics side of things again). I genuinely enjoy it as much as someone can enjoy a career that's not based on a hobby. Which industry I work in doesn't really matter so leaving O&G sucks as that's the best odds of a high salary early into my career. A few years in, things start to level out from what I've heard and seen but as a lot of posters have said before me, living in Calgary on a " Canadian average" salary is tough, especially with only one income.

As for O&G as an industry, from what I experienced in my short exposure to it, you get a lot of great perks such as a higher than average starting salary, easy time getting days off, second fridays off and great parties and events but on the other hand, you have to deal with a lot ignorant, stubborn, "my way or the highway", "old boys club" type people. I'm sure people will reply saying those types of people are in every industry but at least in my role I was shocked at the overall attitude. I guess that's what you get when you have tradesmen move up into management and decision making roles where their in the field experience sort of makes them closed off to outside suggestions. A lot of "this is the way we've been doing it for X number of years, why change?".

In my opinion, being able to comfortably buy a house and just enjoy the comfort that a higher salary would bring me is worth putting up with that occasional annoyance.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Hesla

http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-...es-canada.html

Average hourly salary

1. Retail Sales / Sales Clerk $14
2. Data Entry Clerk $16
3. Bookkeeper $18
4. Accounting Clerk $19
5. Truck Driver $21
6. Carpenter $22
7. Executive Assistant $23
8. Plumber $25
9. Electrician $25
10. Social Worker $29
11. Architect $30
12. Registered Nurse $34
13. Physiotherapist $34
14. Computer Engineer (not software) $35
15. Lawyer $40
16. Computer and Info Systems Manager $40
17. Engineering Manager $43
18. Dentist $70

Man I'd like to find a $40 lawyer

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

PS. You don't have to know anybody to get into the Oil business. They are usually begging for people.

For the white collar jobs, you do.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Hesla

http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-...es-canada.html

Average hourly salary

1. Retail Sales / Sales Clerk $14
2. Data Entry Clerk $16
3. Bookkeeper $18
4. Accounting Clerk $19
5. Truck Driver $21
6. Carpenter $22
7. Executive Assistant $23
8. Plumber $25
9. Electrician $25
10. Social Worker $29
11. Architect $30
12. Registered Nurse $34
13. Physiotherapist $34
14. Computer Engineer (not software) $35
15. Lawyer $40
16. Computer and Info Systems Manager $40
17. Engineering Manager $43
18. Dentist $70

Architects only make $30 an hour?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

For the white collar jobs, you do.

Define what needing to "know" somebody means. If it means that you need to make contact with the actual people who do the hiring, find out the leads names who have the opening and get them to get your resume to HR asking to interview you then yes, you need to know someone but.... this is probably true in any industry. Somewhere I read that 90% of jobs are never posted anywhere.

Every job I have ever gotten including a few restaurant jobs and a job as a univerisity tour guide has been because I knew someone inside who handed my resume to the person doing the hiring to get an interview.

I do not believe the O&G is any different than other industries.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GGG

Define what needing to "know" somebody means. If it means that you need to make contact with the actual people who do the hiring, find out the leads names who have the opening and get them to get your resume to HR asking to interview you then yes, you need to know someone but.... this is probably true in any industry. Somewhere I read that 90% of jobs are never posted anywhere.

Every job I have ever gotten including a few restaurant jobs and a job as a univerisity tour guide has been because I knew someone inside who handed my resume to the person doing the hiring to get an interview.

I do not believe the O&G is any different than other industries.

Standard practice would be to contact the hiring manager, the lead, etc. That goes for any industry. Most jobs that are advertised in O+G, I've found you need to know someone to actually get an interview at the bare minimum. Moreso than other industries I've applied into.

[northcrunk]

I never thought I would enjoy Oil and Gas when I got my first job in the industry making $16/hour in records but since moving into the project side of the industry I do really enjoy what I do and have jumped in salary to the 100k mark. The thing I find in this industry is you do need to make contacts and know the right people to move up but you also need to maintain a good reputation. Your reputation is everything and people come accross each other all the time or call the good people they know when a new project is starting up. I did get my first opportunity at an oil producer because I knew the supervisor really well but I had to impress the manager in the interview to get the job.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by GGG

Define what needing to "know" somebody means. If it means that you need to make contact with the actual people who do the hiring, find out the leads names who have the opening and get them to get your resume to HR asking to interview you then yes, you need to know someone but.... this is probably true in any industry. Somewhere I read that 90% of jobs are never posted anywhere.

Every job I have ever gotten including a few restaurant jobs and a job as a univerisity tour guide has been because I knew someone inside who handed my resume to the person doing the hiring to get an interview.

I do not believe the O&G is any different than other industries.

Either that or referals to a good recruiter. (or having a lot of contacts that are recruiters)

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Muta

Here's a question, and it's one people, I've found, can't answer honestly a lot of the time:

.. do you actually like O+G? Do you have a real, genuine interest in it? Is it something that you can't imagine yourself doing without? Or, if you were at home dreaming of something to do that excited you, it would be oil and gas?

Or are you interested in it because of the money?

Just curious.

A bit of a personal history/story.....

Started in IT, moved more towards electronics and product design, and crafted a nice little career in Project Manager and/or Department Manager type roles. After about a decade I had pretty much peaked and fell into the 'slow and steady' mode of career growth. Topped out earnings in the $70k range.

Decided to move to Oil and Gas purely for the money, assuming that many of the fundamental management skills would transfer (they did, thankfully).

Funny thing happened.....O&G has ended being one of the more interesting industries to work in. The projects tend to be massive in scale (my last 'tiny' role as PM had a $70M TIC, previously worked a key role on a $1.5B job) and touch on every aspect imaginable.

Health, Safety, Environment, Engineering, Business and Planning, Project Execution, Accounting, Supply Chain, and still (for a nerd like me) thankfully heavy on Technology and R&D.

EVERY day I do something interesting. EVERY day I work with brilliant people from every corner of the globe. EVERY day we're solving problems.

As expected, the salary basically doubled by shifting industries (which was the goal). The incredible surprise is that the work is far more interesting than I ever could have expected and I am exceptionally grateful for it.

My dirty secret....I would stay in O&G now even if the wages were comparable to other industries. It's fun, but ymmv.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

Here's a question, and it's one people, I've found, can't answer honestly a lot of the time:

.. do you actually like O+G? Do you have a real, genuine interest in it? Is it something that you can't imagine yourself doing without? Or, if you were at home dreaming of something to do that excited you, it would be oil and gas?

Or are you interested in it because of the money?

Just curious.

Every job I've ever had, O+G or not, ended up being boring and sucking balls in 1-2 years. Every time.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Every job I've ever had, O+G or not, ended up being boring and sucking balls in 1-2 years. Every time.

You ended up sucking balls in every job you've had? You definitely must be one of those $100k'ers.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Muta

Standard practice would be to contact the hiring manager, the lead, etc. That goes for any industry. Most jobs that are advertised in O+G, I've found you need to know someone to actually get an interview at the bare minimum. Moreso than other industries I've applied into.

I can see that perspective for sure....deal with it very often.

When I switched to O&G I knew absolutely nobody connected to business. It forced me to take a slightly 'lesser' job to get in the door but within months I had built a small band of friends/colleagues and the snowball started rolling down the mountain.

The need to have a referral to 'get in the door' is bunk. In my hiring experience I'd say that (for the most part) applicants get as much opportunity as referrals when filling a posted position.

Where referrals are hugely helpful is plugging opportunities that haven't fully developed into posting. I can't begin to describe how often I've seen a general position created just to get a good candidate on board and then build a full position around them.

[wookster]

Originally Posted by Muta

Standard practice would be to contact the hiring manager, the lead, etc. That goes for any industry. Most jobs that are advertised in O+G, I've found you need to know someone to actually get an interview at the bare minimum. Moreso than other industries I've applied into.

Pretty true for the most part. My wife is a HR recruiter and worked for a major O&G company here in Calgary until she went on mat leave and she basically said for the most part the only jobs that ever got posted on their website were the ones they couldn't fill through internal applicants or referrals. They actually even preferred going through a hiring agency to find applicants rather than just posting on their website.

I also work for an oil company and have worked for two others previous to this one and every position I have had was through a referral. There's a reason why these companies will pay their employees thousands of dollars for a good referral that they hire, they get better candidates that way. I wouldn't drop a name here unless I was sure they would be good for the job...

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by fotze

You are also not allowed to publicly like Nenshi.

Hey man I have Muslim friends, they just don't earn 100k+ a year because they were too dumb to go to a technical school here instead of in Idontgivea####istan.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Every job I've ever had, O+G or not, ended up being boring and sucking balls in 1-2 years. Every time.

Wish I could find a woman like your O&G experience. I found that 1-2 years is when the ball sucking generally ends.....




(Sorry to the ladies on CP.....the joke was there, had to go for it)

[Regular_John]

I wonder how income level & job satisfaction correlate with the amount of O&G guys posting to CP on a Wednesday afternoon.