[News] Cammalleri not "scared" of a rebuild

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

For the bolded part:

There does not need to be one way to rebuild a team to be called a rebuild. Even Feaster has said that the team is rebuilding, so i am not sure what else has to be said about that.

Pretty sure the guy is not questioning whether or not the Flames are rebuilding. He is just commenting that the act of rebuilding does not require a scorched-earth approach that demands we trade away every player that will not be productive to the team in 4 years.

Feaster saying "we are rebuilding" does not automatically imply "Cammalleri will be traded". There are scenarios where we try to extend Cammalleri and keep him on as a positive role model for our rookies to follow the example of and learn from.

Besides, it is not like we are in dire need to free up cap space.

The only reasons I see the Flames have for trading Cammalleri away is either if he asks to be traded or the Flames get a really good offer for his services. Otherwise I think it would be a great idea to extend him and give him the "C".

[Tinordi]

I perceive that "having a positive role model for rookies" is being overrated by fans who are resistant to change.

Besides that, role models are easy to acquire, much easier than acquiring another first rounder. That first rounder has much more value to a team's future success than any presence of a by-gone era scoring winger.

One of the best role models the Flames had in this era was Dave Lowry who signed as a free agent with the Flames in 2000. Should we need veteran leadership we'll acquire it. But we should not prioritize that over high end draft picks.

Besides role models are just overrated as well. Who were significant role models for Chicago when they emerged? I'd argue nobody. That roster succeeded because they put talented players on it and they emerged. You don't need role models to do that.

And this is not even to mention that Cammalleri is on the last year of his deal and there'd be very very low odds that he'd re-sign here.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I perceive that "having a positive role model for rookies" is being overrated by fans who are resistant to change.

Besides that, role models are easy to acquire, much easier than acquiring another first rounder. That first rounder has much more value to a team's future success than any presence of a by-gone era scoring winger.

One of the best role models the Flames had in this era was Dave Lowry who signed as a free agent with the Flames in 2000. Should we need veteran leadership we'll acquire it. But we should not prioritize that over high end draft picks.

Besides role models are just overrated as well. Who were significant role models for Chicago when they emerged? I'd argue nobody. That roster succeeded because they put talented players on it and they emerged. You don't need role models to do that.

And this is not even to mention that Cammalleri is on the last year of his deal and there'd be very very low odds that he'd re-sign here.

It is not ridiculous to say that cammi could fetch a first rounder, but it is ridiculous to say that he will fetch a first rounder. I don't think Feaster and co sat down for a meeting this summer and put the issue to bed by asserting that he will get a massive deadline return, so don't worry about it. Case closed.

They will have several meetings throughout the year based on dozens of variables. No matter what happens, it will be a rebuild, and likely somewhat surprising to all of us.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Pretty sure the guy is not questioning whether or not the Flames are rebuilding. He is just commenting that the act of rebuilding does not require a scorched-earth approach that demands we trade away every player that will not be productive to the team in 4 years.

Feaster saying "we are rebuilding" does not automatically imply "Cammalleri will be traded". There are scenarios where we try to extend Cammalleri and keep him on as a positive role model for our rookies to follow the example of and learn from.

Besides, it is not like we are in dire need to free up cap space.

The only reasons I see the Flames have for trading Cammalleri away is either if he asks to be traded or the Flames get a really good offer for his services. Otherwise I think it would be a great idea to extend him and give him the "C".

Get what you are saying. I however don't believe that teams really try to go "scorched-earth" when rebuilding. I think its more thrust upon them when the quality veterans don't want to stick around, and the quality veterans on the UFA market don't want to go to a rebuild team.

I have no problem if they extend Cammi at a reasonable price, but i don't see it happening. Cammi as a UFA can sign just about anywhere at a reasonable price. Not sure what Calgary would have to offer if they are not paying over market value?

Also i highly doubt Cammi would be getting the "C" if he did stick around. From what Feaster has said in the past it sounds like the players want to see Gio with the "C".

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

First i was not "upset" i just think you are a poster that likes to rile things up and i have no problem calling you out on it.

2nd this is a thread about Cammalleri. You can't group all veterans in the same group. Cammi is in a group that can play top 6 on almost any team, not a 30+ veteran that does not want to play 3-4th line minutes and takes what he can get. For Cammi he will get his money and ice time pretty much wherever he plays. Hence why players in this group would rather have no part of a rebuild.

Did Cammi come out and say the right things in this thread article? Yes he did. Did he say the right things a month ago when asked? i would say not. Cammi is not a dummy and realises that he will not be traded right now and there is nothing to gain to try and force their hand. If he says the wrong thing now he could be traded to a team that has as much chance of playoffs as Calgary. No need to have to move twice in one year. He also gets to stay until the deadline on a team where the coach has come out and said that he likes to play his veterans. Cammi's best way to drive up his value is get his top line minutes and try and get as many points as he can.

For purposes of this thread, Cammi is not "scared of a rebuild" because he knows his time is almost up and he will have a good chance of playing playoff hockey by the time the deadline passes.

Like you, I just respond in-kind and call people out on their junk. But that's apparently going to get me in trouble, so kid gloves it is! (or mutual respect, we could call it that too if it makes people more comfortable )

I have to say, I understand far more where you're coming from after that post, I just took issue with your general summary of how you feel Cammi is thinking. But you are right, a player in his position is going to more inclined to be on a contending team rather than be the go-to guy on a rebuilding team. I don't believe that is true for ALL players in his position, nor do I necessarily believe it's true for Cammi, but I'm not above entertaining the notion that he'd possibly want out. What he said a month ago was more about avoiding a long 4 year process like the Oilers, and instead finding away to turn it around in 1 or 2 years. Would he want to stay if we looked like we were turning the corner faster than people predict? I'm betting yes. Are we likely to turn the corner at that rate? I'm guessing no.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Get what you are saying. I however don't believe that teams really try to go "scorched-earth" when rebuilding. I think its more thrust upon them when the quality veterans don't want to stick around, and the quality veterans on the UFA market don't want to go to a rebuild team.

Agreed. It is not the team is trying to take a scorched-earth approach to the rebuild. But you can definitely tell that there are a number of fans that have gone overboard with their desire to blow the team up until all we have left are 18-23 year olds and a stockpile of draftpicks.

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I have no problem if they extend Cammi at a reasonable price, but i don't see it happening. Cammi as a UFA can sign just about anywhere at a reasonable price. Not sure what Calgary would have to offer if they are not paying over market value?

I do not really see why it would matter if the Flames re-sign Cammalleri at a reasonable price or a wildly inflated price. As things stand now, we have a lot of cap space and no immediate need to free up more space. I fully expect that if the Flames were to extend Cammalleri, it would be an overpayment to compensate him for staying here to be a leader in the rebuild instead of moving on to a playoff team.


If we keep paying him $6M for the next 3 years it likely wouldn't impact our ability to sign other players or make trades.

My expectation is still that Cammalleri will be traded at the deadline and I believe the return for him will be good but I also see the value in keeping him on the team if he is willing to embrace that role.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Agreed. It is not the team is trying to take a scorched-earth approach to the rebuild. But you can definitely tell that there are a number of fans that have gone overboard with their desire to blow the team up until all we have left are 18-23 year olds and a stockpile of draftpicks.





I do not really see why it would matter if the Flames re-sign Cammalleri at a reasonable price or a wildly inflated price. As things stand now, we have a lot of cap space and no immediate need to free up more space. I fully expect that if the Flames were to extend Cammalleri, it would be an overpayment to compensate him for staying here to be a leader in the rebuild instead of moving on to a playoff team.


If we keep paying him $6M for the next 3 years it likely wouldn't impact our ability to sign other players or make trades.

My expectation is still that Cammalleri will be traded at the deadline and I believe the return for him will be good but I also see the value in keeping him on the team if he is willing to embrace that role.

I agree that some fans would trade every veteran over 28 this summer just to go with youth. I don't think that is the way to go.

As for the 2nd part, i am not sure that i would want Cammi at $6 million a year for 3 years? Yes the flames have the cap space, but i truley believe that when signing a player you better be able to get out of that contract through trade if you need to go in a differnet direction or open a spot for a youngster.

Flames have some LW's in the system coming up and they have Glencross for 2 more years. Sure you can play Cammi at RW, but he plays way better at LW. Don't even get me started with putting him at center.

Like you i think he is gone at the deadline. I also think we will be having this discussion next summer about Glencross and what could be his final year as a flame.

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Besides role models are just overrated as well. Who were significant role models for Chicago when they emerged? I'd argue nobody. That roster succeeded because they put talented players on it and they emerged. You don't need role models to do that.

They got lucky with Toews. Natural leader. It would be nice if Monahan lives up to his comparisons to Toews.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Besides role models are just overrated as well. Who were significant role models for Chicago when they emerged? I'd argue nobody. That roster succeeded because they put talented players on it and they emerged. You don't need role models to do that.

Hossa, Campbell, Sharp, even Huet

While Sharp didn't really breakout until joining the Hawks, the other players mentioned were all veteren players with lots of playoff experience. Even guys like Boyton and Sopel, while not the producers the others are/were, were likely good additions to a locker room full of young kids.

Leadership is important, and sometimes teams luck out with young captains like Toews and Crosby, but it's very rare. Often times these young players are under 20 making millions of dollars living in big cities far from their families, they need guidance whether it be a coach or players who have gone through the grind over and over.

I'm not saying they have to play significant roles statistics wise (which plays to your point that they can be easy to acquire, they can sometimes), but it's a bonus if you can have a guy who is by all accounts great in the locker room and a hard worker and happens to put the puck in the net too.

Cammy makes too much dough right now, but I would definitely not be adverse to re-signing him at a lower rate if he wanted to be here. People may argue that he doesn't want to, but theyre just talking out of their asses.

Do you think Conroy had a positive impact on Iginla's growth? I would bet good money that Iginla would say yes.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hossa, Campbell, Sharp, even Huet

While Sharp didn't really breakout until joining the Hawks, the other players mentioned were all veteren players with lots of playoff experience. Even guys like Boyton and Sopel, while not the producers the others are/were, were likely good additions to a locker room full of young kids.

Leadership is important, and sometimes teams luck out with young captains like Toews and Crosby, but it's very rare. Often times these young players are under 20 making millions of dollars living in big cities far from their families, they need guidance whether it be a coach or players who have gone through the grind over and over.

I'm not saying they have to play significant roles statistics wise (which plays to your point that they can be easy to acquire, they can sometimes), but it's a bonus if you can have a guy who is by all accounts great in the locker room and a hard worker and happens to put the puck in the net too.

Cammy makes too much dough right now, but I would definitely not be adverse to re-signing him at a lower rate if he wanted to be here. People may argue that he doesn't want to, but theyre just talking out of their asses.

Do you think Conroy had a positive impact on Iginla's growth? I would bet good money that Iginla would say yes.

Wouldn't saying he might want to be a leader on the team and re-sign also be "talking out of their asses"?

For me i am going by past interviews of Cammi, Feaster and past veteran players that have been in the same situation. I have heard neither side even mention "re-sign".

Normally when a trade rumour comes up on a player a GM will throw water on the fire, and say something like we could go many ways with said player. We might look into trading him or we might try and re-sign him. I don't remember Feaster doing that before the draft when asked about Cammi? What i do remember is him saying they have had no calls on him yet, but they know his #, and to give him a call. It sounded like they were quite open to trade Cammi if something came up that made sense. I aslo don't think its a far stretch of the imagination to think Cammi behind closed doors asked Feaster to look into a trade if it made sense for the team.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hossa, Campbell, Sharp, even Huet

That is the list of veteran players that were on the Blackhawks for the year they won the cup. I would go back to the 2007-08 Hawks to look at what kind of veterans were on the team when they were bringing on Kane and Toews.

Sharp and Campbell were there but they also had Lang, Adams, Havlat, Lapointe, Perreault, Vandermeer, etc that were all on the team providing veteran leadership. In 08-09 they still had veterans like Pahlsson on the team to replace Lang.

Bringing this back to Cammalleri, I think he does a lot more than just provide veteran leadership and set a good example. He is a first line player that can keep teams focused on him instead of Sven. Keeping Cammalleri here has value. Perhaps not as much value as adding another 2014 first round pick but it is still a multi-functional value that he brings to the team.

On the other hand, the draft pick gives us is another roll at the dice to hopefully acquire another future star for the Flames or possibly another potential bust.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Wouldn't saying he might want to be a leader on the team and re-sign also be "talking out of their asses"?

There's a difference between saying IF he wants to stay he would be good in a leadership role and out-right saying he doesn't want to be here for a rebuild, just because he's a veteran, like its a statement of fact. It might be different for Cammy because he hasn't had the personal success that a lot of veterans crave, but there are likely guys who are on their way out (Cammy still has some good years left) that may take to the idea of being a mentor-type player. Especially if they are interested in coaching and the like after their playing career.

I don't believe I said anything predicting Cammy's choice, just that if he was to want to stay in that role, I would personally welcome it.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As for veterans anxious to get out of town to avoid playing for a rebuilding team, this is only one aspect of a players motivations. Some players may like the team and are loyal to their fellow players and management. It could be because they grew up as fans for the team or just like playing in a certain area. Canadian players playing for a Canadian team is an attraction. There are also other considerations such as their wives and family. Their wife could be from the area or her job could in the area. The kids could like the school they go to and the player feels relatively safe in the community. It's not all cut and dried about the money and the Cup.

very well put ...the players and they're families are human beings playing in those in those jerseys and living in our communities and this so too often forgotten.

[sureLoss]

Cammalleri says he is open to a contract extension if the Flames want him:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...n-with-flames/

"Who knows? We’ll see," he said of his future in Calgary. "We’ll see what they want to do. Truthfully, I got a lot of respect for (GM) Jay (Feaster) and (assistant GM) John (Weisbrod), I’ve had an open dialogue with them. Nothing to report, but we’ll see what they want to do. I like it there, it’s a good place. I’m open (to an extension)."

[FAN]

I'm not at all surprised that Cammalleri is opened to an extension. I do believe he likes it here. I think winning is important to Cammalleri but I think money is at least equally important. I think he realizes that he might not be as desirable of a UFA as when he was last a UFA so if the numbers work it Cammy might as well sign an extension.

Ultimately players want to be a part of the solution and Cammy is young enough to be convinced that he's part of the solution. We see it all the time. Players get convinced to stay with the promise that the retool/rebuild will be quick and that they will be treated fairly.

[kyuss275]

Didn't Burke want to sign Cammi before he went to Montreal?

[browna]

Interesting timing and choice of media outlet to talk to.

Now with Burke aboard, a different dynamic in the front office; basically, a new guy that he will actually like playing for, or, at least, remain on Burke's good side so that maybe he can do what Feaster tried and failed to do, trade him.

Float that out to Lebrun/ESPN instead of to the local guys.

[Poe969]

From what I recall, Cammy wanted to be on the leafs and Burke said he was too small and soft so he went to the canadians. I can't see Burke wanting him around long term, let alone for the end of the year. I'm guessing Cammy becomes the Flames best offensive player and is traded a week before the deadline or so for a significant return. I like him but I honestly don't see him being here too long.

[Pontine]

I like having Cammy around to mentor the young guys coming up.

Plus, Monahan said in an interview he's most looking forward to playing with Cammy (assuming in camp and if he makes the team full time).

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Cammalleri says he is open to a contract extension if the Flames want him:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...n-with-flames/

I don't have any issues with extending Cammalleri if the term and cap hit are reasonable (i.e. 3 X 4-million). But I wouldn't be happy with a larger commitment.

I also think the Flames need to look at an extension later in the season once they see how the kids, Jones, and Galliardi are doing. Plus it will depend on Cammalleri's trade value. If you can get a 1st round pick for him at the deadline I think you have to take it.

The Flames have Jones, Galliardi, Cammalleri, Stempniak, Hudler, Glencross, and Baertschi as their top 9W this season. They have Agostino and Gaudreau potentially joining the team late in the season. They have players like Ferland and Hanowski that they hope will be pushing for a spot soon. And they have Stajan, Backlund, Granlund, Knight, Horak, and Monahan fighting for top 9C and some of them may need to move to W.

If things go well and the bulk of those guys turn out then there isn't room for Cammalleri and the Flames are better off trading him (and Stajan/Stempniak). But if Jones/Galliardi don't turn out and enough kids aren't ready then Cammalleri (and/or Stajan/Stempniak) make effective place holders until they are.