Flames Prospect Polls comparison

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I watched him play. WJC and live. He's only an average to below average skater. This may cause him some struggle when he first hits pro. I like his defensive hickey sense though. He seems to read the play in the D zone well. But I'm no scout.

Wotherspoon is a better skater than Cundari.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Curious as to what you would need to see from Jankowski this year for him to be a top 5 or top 10 prospect? I ask, because in a separate thread there was a discussion which made it clear everyone has a different view of "success" for him. 0.75 ppg? 1.0 ppg?
I think the difference of opinion is based mostly on expectation. You correctly point out that his draft position should not matter, but I also think it is appropriate to point out his age and the big jump in competition.

I'd like to see something approaching .8 PPG. That would put him into the top 10 for me and show some great progress. He'll be moving to center this year, so if he can pick up his production with a position change and responsibility, it would be a huge step for the kid.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Jankowski was given a tonne of top 6 time and spent a good majority of the season on the top PP unit. This is not something often done for freshman players. And is a good reason why he ended up with as many points as he did.

If he hadn't been coddled by the coaching staff, he might have struggled even worse.

Agreed, this year will show us what he's got. But don't tell me to keep a grasp on reality when I actually spent time watching the kid play hockey this year. He isn't a top 10 prospect in my mind. If you don't agree, I could care less.

Coddled? I saw a few games last year and I never once got the impression that he was coddled.

Do you have any actual reason to believe he was coddled (other than the 'advanced stats' that are so popular at FN)? Do you know who his line-mates were?

Sure, he got some PP time - most players with offensive ability do. That doesn't equate to coddled.

Based on this line of reasoning, you must really hate Monahan.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Wotherspoon is a better skater than Cundari.

I disagree. Wotherspoon has less footspeed. In my non-professional opinion.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Coddled? I saw a few games last year and I never once got the impression that he was coddled.

Do you have any actual reason to believe he was coddled (other than the 'advanced stats' that are so popular at FN)? Do you know who his line-mates were?

Sure, he got some PP time - most players with offensive ability do. That doesn't equate to coddled.

Based on this line of reasoning, you must really hate Monahan.

I watched 12 games. I didn't record his zone starts but I did notice he started many shifts in the offensive zone.

He also spent alot of time on the PP. like I said before, this isn't something done often for freshman. Even Gaudreau had to work his was up the depth chart at BC. Jankowski was handed top 6 minutes and Pp time right out of the gate.

That is where my coddled statement is stemming from. If it wasn't for Gillies, Providence would have been worse than Northeastern this year.

Ps. Why would I hate Monahan?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I'd like to see something approaching .8 PPG. That would put him into the top 10 for me and show some great progress. He'll be moving to center this year, so if he can pick up his production with a position change and responsibility, it would be a huge step for the kid.

I agree that something in the 0.75 - 0.8 PPG range would show good progression.

A full PPG would be awesome.

But with all this talk about PPG, I think some posters are forgetting or ignoring that there are other potential aspects to a good C's game.

Jankowski is good positionally, defensively, at draws, has good hockey IQ, and wins his share of puck battles, despite the fact that he is not yet physical enough.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I watched 12 games. I didn't record his zone starts but I did notice he started many shifts in the offensive zone.

He also spent alot of time on the PP. like I said before, this isn't something done often for freshman. Even Gaudreau had to work his was up the depth chart at BC. Jankowski was handed top 6 minutes and Pp time right out of the gate.

That is where my coddled statement is stemming from. If it wasn't for Gillies, Providence would have been worse than Northeastern this year.

Ps. Why would I hate Monahan?

Gaudreau was on BC's first unit PP in his rookie year (and had far better players to play with).

When I saw them, Jankowski was sometimes first unit and sometimes second unit PP.

PP time does not equate to coddled - it simply means that the coach thinks he has some offensive ability.

The Monahan comment was in reference to his PP points relative to total points.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree that something in the 0.75 - 0.8 PPG range would show good progression.

A full PPG would be awesome.

But with all this talk about PPG, I think some posters are forgetting or ignoring that there are other potential aspects to a good C's game.

Jankowski is good positionally, defensively, at draws, has good hockey IQ, and wins his share of puck battles, despite the fact that he is not yet physical enough.

Really? He played LW exclusively this year. And I can say from the games I watched, he has quite a bit of work to do in his own zone.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Gaudreau was on BC's first unit PP in his rookie year (and had far better players to play with).

When I saw them, Jankowski was sometimes first unit and sometimes second unit PP.

PP time does not equate to coddled - it simply means that the coach thinks he has some offensive ability.

The Monahan comment was in reference to his PP points relative to total points.

Sean Monahan WAS that teams scoring. I would be more worried about him if he was racking up point exclusively on the Pp with other players racking up the 5on5 points. Monahan played the toughest minutes on that team (not something I know except based on reports).

The fact that the next closest player had 38 less points than Monahan. That he was Above a PPG is quite impressive.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Really? He played LW exclusively this year. And I can say from the games I watched, he has quite a bit of work to do in his own zone.

Oops - hit thanks instead of reply...

So you have never seen him play C? He played C at the rookie camp a couple weeks ago - and his positional and defensive play were excellent, IMO.

He also wasn't exclusively LW in Providence.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Sean Monahan WAS that teams scoring. I would be more worried about him if he was racking up point exclusively on the Pp with other players racking up the 5on5 points. Monahan played the toughest minutes on that team (not something I know except based on reports).

The fact that the next closest player had 38 less points than Monahan. That he was Above a PPG is quite impressive.

Yes it was and I agree on all your comments on Monahan. I only made that point to show the logic you were using.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Oops - hit thanks instead of reply...

So you have never seen him play C? He played C at the rookie camp a couple weeks ago - and his positional and defensive play were excellent, IMO.

Never saw the camp. But you can't equate a scrimmage to a real game.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Ah I see. You've got some insight into the minds of NHL scouts and GMs. Would you mind sharing this special insight you have?

This whole quoted comment is hilarious.

Yeah...i have talked to a couple different scouts about players as a matter of fact. And there is no "special insight" (whatever the hell that means) just what guys who do this for a living had to say. Jankowski specifically was one of my questions along with Gaudreau...because we dont get to see a lot of them.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Oops - hit thanks instead of reply...

So you have never seen him play C? He played C at the rookie camp a couple weeks ago - and his positional and defensive play were excellent, IMO.

He also wasn't exclusively LW in Providence.

I'm sure he had a shift or two off wing or at center. But he was primarily a LWinger.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Never saw the camp. But you can't equate a scrimmage to a real game.

No, but nor should you simply ignore it

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, but nor should you simply ignore it

Well I can't comment on something I never saw in this case. I can only comment on the games I saw.

He was pretty weak in his own zone, even as just a winger. Hopefully he plays better at center this year. Progression.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Well I can't comment on something I never saw in this case. I can only comment on the games I saw.

He was pretty weak in his own zone, even as just a winger. Hopefully he plays better at center this year. Progression.

But that's the thing - you have been commenting on his defensive play.

LW has little defensive responsibility. C has much more. I have seen him play both and I think he displays a good deal of smarts defensively.

His coach also speaks highly of his all around game and hockey IQ, but I know, you disagree.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But that's the thing - you have been commenting on his defensive play.

LW has little defensive responsibility. C has much more. I have seen him play both and I think he displays a good deal of smarts defensively.

His coach also speaks highly of his all around game and hockey IQ, but I know, you disagree.

I don't know what to tell you man. He lost alot of puck battles in his own zone. He was not a great back checker. I can only comment on those games I watched. But like I said. He was not great defensively even as a winger. But alot of the issues he had may have had to do with his physical abilities. Hopefully he has progressed this offseason for the upcoming season as a center.

I don't disagree about his hockey sense. I try to not comment alot on things that are not quantifiable as they are often clouded in bias.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I don't know what to tell you man. He lost alot of puck battles in his own zone. He was not a great back checker. I can only comment on those games I watched. But like I said. He was not great defensively even as a winger. But alot of the issues he had may have had to do with his physical abilities. Hopefully he has progressed this offseason for the upcoming season as a center.

I don't disagree about his hockey sense. I try to not comment alot on things that are not quantifiable as they are often clouded in bias.

Go on...

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Go on...

Uh......