Gelinas "It's going to be a struggle this year"

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think we are in a good spot with our forward group as I assume pending UFA's will be traded at the deadline. Cammy, Stajan, Stempniak, Jackman possibly Galliardi will be dealt around Christmas to the deadline. The kids will take over after that. I also don't think Jay will say no to moving the likes of Hudler if the right deal comes along.

For D I see Butler, Smith and Russel being moved if we are out of the mix as they are pending UFA's. I don't think Jay will be worried to move SOB, or maybe Wideman if the interest is there.

Didn't Russell clear waivers? I bet Butler and Smith would get a late round pick max. Same with Jackman.

Cammalleri I thought we could probably get something decent. Stajan and Stempniak, I'm thinking 2nd to 3rd round pick.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Didn't Russell clear waivers? I bet Butler and Smith would get a late round pick max. Same with Jackman.

Cammalleri I thought we could probably get something decent. Stajan and Stempniak, I'm thinking 2nd to 3rd round pick.

Russel did clear waivers but he might be movable or even worth keeping depending on his season. I agree on Butler and Smith but at this point unless Wortherspoon, Ramage, or Sieloff really really step up I assume one of Butler or Russel will be given a top 4 role

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think we are in a good spot with our forward group as I assume pending UFA's will be traded at the deadline. Cammy, Stajan, Stempniak, Jackman possibly Galliardi will be dealt around Christmas to the deadline. The kids will take over after that. I also don't think Jay will say no to moving the likes of Hudler if the right deal comes along.

For D I see Butler, Smith and Russel being moved if we are out of the mix as they are pending UFA's. I don't think Jay will be worried to move SOB, or maybe Wideman if the interest is there.

The Flames have some nice pending UFA assets that can get them 2nd/3rd/4th round picks and youngish players or prospects. There is no reason to go totally young in October. Injuries happen, and the Flames have said several times over the course of the summer that they are going to give the kids a chance and if 2 players are similar they go with the kid. Doing nothing in Free Agency leads me to believe they will do what they say.

I get all that and I am not suggesting that we need to clean house and go with an all-rookie team. In fact, I see a lot of value in keeping some of our veterans around to both shelter and mentor the new guys. My problem is that right now there is no room for the rookies to be on the team and to take advantage of the mentorship of the veterans.

The Flames should really be planning a phased progression for bringing in players from the Heat. For example: Have room for Sven, Knight, Horak, Brodie and then maybe one more D. Those guys get mentored from now until the trade deadline when 3 more spots open up. That way we are not suddenly trying to onboard 6 rookies at the same time without enough coaches and veterans to mentor each kid to figure out how to handle life as an NHL player.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think we are in a good spot with our forward group as I assume pending UFA's will be traded at the deadline. Cammy, Stajan, Stempniak, Jackman possibly Galliardi will be dealt around Christmas to the deadline. The kids will take over after that. I also don't think Jay will say no to moving the likes of Hudler if the right deal comes along.

For D I see Butler, Smith and Russel being moved if we are out of the mix as they are pending UFA's. I don't think Jay will be worried to move SOB, or maybe Wideman if the interest is there.

The Flames have some nice pending UFA assets that can get them 2nd/3rd/4th round picks and youngish players or prospects. There is no reason to go totally young in October. Injuries happen, and the Flames have said several times over the course of the summer that they are going to give the kids a chance and if 2 players are similar they go with the kid. Doing nothing in Free Agency leads me to believe they will do what they say.

Problem with this is, you can't run a team with JUST kids. There has to be some vetran presence and work ethic the young guys can play with- along with talent. Moving Hudler would be a mistake- as well as Cammy IMO. I hope we can snag Brunner. I wouldn't loose sleep over loosing Jackman or Stajan but Stemps needs to stay- as well as Wideman and SOB. You can't properly develop a team of kids and no defence- ask the Oilers.

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Really? The OP is getting himself in a twist over these comments?

Gelinas could have said we're going to suck harder than a Dyson and I wouldn't care, because he would be right.

Not really getting myself in a twist. Came across some information, and shared it for public opinion. I've stated multiple times that it is a crappy way for a leader to think about an upcoming project. It's a self defeated attitude imho.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Russel did clear waivers but he might be movable or even worth keeping depending on his season.

Russell has value. The reason he wasn't claimed was because he was a potential arbitration case and a lot of teams couldn't afford to pick him up this summer in a year with the cap going down, have him go to arbitration and then have him win a big payday. Now that he's signed to an affordable deal and is UFA his value should be restored.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Iniggywetrust

...I've stated multiple times that it is a crappy way for a leader to think about an upcoming project. It's a self defeated attitude imho.

This begs the question, though: "What is 'the project' in this instance?" If the goal for the Flames this season is the development of players and the emergence of a new core for the future of the team, then I might agree with you. However, it seems to me that Gelinas' comments are not directed toward this, and have much more to do with the relative performance of the team in the NHL standings. In other words, "it's going to be a struggle TO WIN GAMES because of the team's inexperience.

The analogous "project" that you have imagined for this team is not altogether realistically achievable. Gelinas recognises this, and it is no slight—nor the product of any sort of attitude deficiency to acknowledge how difficult the season will be for this group. Its reality.

[ernie]

You know what's worse than a leader saying a project is going to be a struggle? A leader who says "okey dokey we can do this!" and then delivers a project that has blown the timeline, blown the budget and does not meet the objectives set out (because they weren't realistic). The worst project leader in the world is one that doesn't see or won't admit that there are struggles and major hurdles in that project. A project leader is, in essence, the gate keeper for his/her team and needs to keep the team honest about expectations, timelines etc AND be able to communicate honestly with the folks above him, below him or at the same level. Rah Rah Rah and constant positivity doesn't get you very far in a project. Without cold hard reality tempering expectations from the very genesis of the project you do nothing but set the project and your project team up for failure.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Iniggywetrust

I've stated multiple times that it is a crappy way for a leader to think about an upcoming project. It's a self defeated attitude imho.

He didn't say "we're going to be the worst team in the league", he said "it's going to be a struggle". The team just lost Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Kiprusoff, and Sarich. There will be nothing easy about this upcoming season; every game will be a struggle.

I don't find Gelinas' comments to be self-defeating at all. I find them to be realistic, and if this team wants to have any chance of making the postseason, they need to be aware that they'll have to work harder for it than any other team in the league.



IMO we're drafting top 3 next year.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its going to be interesting to just watch hockey from an evaluation standpoint, without worrying about win streaks, losing streaks and where we are in the standings.

The next couple of years are going to be pretty close to expectation free, then after that the pressure ramps up again.

The coaches to the press will all say the same thing to the press. We are here to win. But in their head they have a closer vision to this

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

His words would only be a surprise to some of the hopeless romantics on Calgarypuck and certainly not to any of the players, his fellow coaches, the GM or the owners.

Gelinas did learn, however, that Calgarypuck spies are everywhere so its probably the last time he says anything other than, "Hell, we're gonna kick ass!!!" to anyone he doesn't know.

Cowperson

Odd bump, and this is not about this Gelinas thread....but where is the fine gentleman named Cowperson these days? This was his last post on here that I can find.

[Flamboyant 14]

I always liked Cowperson's posts.....

[Trailer Fire]

Also, where is Roof-daddy?

[Azhouse]

Why did Moon get banned?

[Deegee]

Because all he did was troll people for years.

[Ozy_Flame]

Cowperson and his dogs trolled the #### out of everybody around here. He actually has cats.

[terminator]

To be more on topic, Russel has come a long way. From being put on waivers and going unclaimed to singing a long term contract here and being a big part of the D-core.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by ernie

You know what's worse than a leader saying a project is going to be a struggle? A leader who says "okey dokey we can do this!" and then delivers a project that has blown the timeline, blown the budget and does not meet the objectives set out (because they weren't realistic). The worst project leader in the world is one that doesn't see or won't admit that there are struggles and major hurdles in that project. A project leader is, in essence, the gate keeper for his/her team and needs to keep the team honest about expectations, timelines etc AND be able to communicate honestly with the folks above him, below him or at the same level. Rah Rah Rah and constant positivity doesn't get you very far in a project. Without cold hard reality tempering expectations from the very genesis of the project you do nothing but set the project and your project team up for failure.

The worst leaders are the ones that guarantee results in a business where guaranteed results are impossible. President of my dad's company guaranteed they'd hit oil to their investors and he lost 500 million, that's a bad leader. (thankfully my dad was not one of the investors and quit at the right time).

[hixxes]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Also, where is Roof-daddy?

And Fotze?

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Deegee

Because all he did was troll people for years.

I feel like Moon was more of a pessimistic realist than a troll.