Had to read the OP, just to make sure I understood the assumptions (assumed that all participants would be ok with it). In this case, it would be tough to argue against wearing the patch (again, assuming it would be allowed), but I would add that if one member objected, I think the team needs to respect that opinion and find another opportunity to register their objection. I support the cause, but I do feel that some posters are somewhat sanctimonious on the issue. It isn't as if the LGBT have been living in this country as true equals (marriage, for example) very long, and if I am not mistaked, it is still not fully accepted in the US. This sort of social change takes time, and I think Putin has unwittingly shown the spotlight on the issue in Russia himself. I do hope atheletes take a stand if they feel strongly about the issue, but boycott or mandated patches is not really the answer for me.
I think that it is a dark line to pressure another country through sports. However, and I believe the Olympics should be free of politics, but politics have always been involved in the Olympics since their inception.In early Greece, it was a sporting event that brought divisive groups together and provided a forum for discussing military, politics and culture. In 1972 Jewish athletes and coaches were killed at the Munich. Games. So politics and the Olympics is here to stay.
I fully support the right to chose, and maybe the NHL should create a patch based on their "right to Play' program. It is their program, and their way to be supportive, rather than a rainbow patch.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastpuck
I think that it is a dark line to pressure another country through sports. However, and I believe the Olympics should be free of politics, but politics have always been involved in the Olympics since their inception.In early Greece, it was a sporting event that brought divisive groups together and provided a forum for discussing military, politics and culture. In 1972 Jewish athletes and coaches were killed at the Munich. Games. So politics and the Olympics is here to stay.
I fully support the right to chose, and maybe the NHL should create a patch based on their "right to Play' program. It is their program, and their way to be supportive, rather than a rainbow patch.
This isnt an NHL decision though, its hockey Canada and would likely have to get approval from the Canadian Olympic Committee that would then have to answer to the Canadian government (for the funding aspect, not the decision aspect) who in all probability would have no part of politicizing the games with a trade partner.
Ah yes, the old 'let countries do what they wish' response. That's worked out oh so well in the past. Let them round up and beat the people who only ask to be treated as humans. Let them deny basic rights. Hey, let's turn a blind eye to those train cars while we're at it.
I'm glad this topic came up in FOI, it really exposed a whole new group of scumbags.
Quoted for absolute truth.
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The only thing I can say, as I really have no opinion on a rainbow patch specifically, is that those who are saying politics and sports should be separate are only partially correct. The Olympics stand for more than just sport, and even in their code is explicitly states that nobody should be discriminated on. Holding the Olympics in a country that openly discriminates people based on sexual orientation is wrong, so in all honestly, they should be moved. But a patch? Sure, whatever. However athletes want to show that THEY are standing up for the ethics that the Olympics claims to represent is fine by me. Of course, I think that should come down to each and every individual player. Let the patches or whatever they choose be available to wear on their uniform, but don't just stick it on every Canadian jersey.
For anyone saying that the Olympics are not the proper place to highlight human rights issues, do you think this was a bad thing?
Actually a really bad example, I fail to see the team issued patch. There's nothing wrong with individuals stepping up and showing their support (like above with fist and sharing the pair of gloves) but having a team issue it as it's uniform is different and having the team use it's uniform to promote it's political views is wrong.
If an athlete chooses to have a rainbow bin attached to their uniform, all the power to them... it's not the place for the team uniform to dictate the protest
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Pretty amazing comments, especially from the people who believe that politics should be left out of the Olympics. That boat sailed so long ago I doubt 99% of the posters on this board were born when it happened.
If you go and wikipedia the Olympic games there are sections to recap the boycotts and the politics of the games. The primary story of the Berlin games in 1936 was that enough nations were going to boycott the games that Hitler retracted his agenda to prevent Jews and Blacks from being allowed to participate in the event. There is really no reason to be ignorant of the fact that the Olympics is an event to promote bettering the human race and that includes pressuring the host country to improve its decisions on human rights issues.
Russia's new anti-gay laws are just as bad as Hitler's decision to ban certain people from being allowed to participate. Anyone performing any act that is deemed gay (two men holding hands) can be put in jail. If the offending people are not Russian then they will be jailed for 14 days without appeal prior to being deported. If they are Russian they can be sentenced for their crime - of holding hands.
Personally, I would rather Canada, America and every other free world nation boycott the games in the face of Russia's new laws that not only negatively impact the Russian minority but also poses a threat to any of us that might travel into Russia (including the athletes). I realize that it is very unfair to the athletes that have trained so hard to live out their dream but if it would allow the people in Russia to live with the same rights and freedoms that they would have here in Canada then I hope they would understand that it is a worthwhile sacrifice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympic ideals are expressed in the Olympic creed:
The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well
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Touché. Brain fart on 2 hours sleep. Obviously I meant General Suharto in Indonesia. But the point stands... I will get involved in human rights issues here and abroad because I think they all deserve attention.
Honestly, I do have to commend your values and actually taking a stand in positions that align with your values.
With regards to the putting of a patch onto a jersey, I don't think it is a bad idea, but I also don't know if it would actually achieve anything at the same time. Personally I have been thinking that while the Russian laws are incredibly offensive and the concurrent actions of more radical aspects of the Russian population are hideous, disgusting and a blight on humanity, I also wonder whether this is the Olympics version of putting up a difference facebook profile picture because of child abuse/breast cancer/gay&lesbian marriage/Kony.... It is a good idea in principle but what actual action could be undertaken in order to assist in educating the Russian population (and that is the real issue in my opinion).
Honestly, I do have to commend your values and actually taking a stand in positions that align with your values.
With regards to the putting of a patch onto a jersey, I don't think it is a bad idea, but I also don't know if it would actually achieve anything at the same time. Personally I have been thinking that while the Russian laws are incredibly offensive and the concurrent actions of more radical aspects of the Russian population are hideous, disgusting and a blight on humanity, I also wonder whether this is the Olympics version of putting up a difference facebook profile picture because of child abuse/breast cancer/gay&lesbian marriage/Kony.... It is a good idea in principle but what actual action could be undertaken in order to assist in educating the Russian population (and that is the real issue in my opinion).
I get what you're saying, but there is value in the "Facebook profile" kind of activism. It raises awareness. It's not going out and giving money to some charity to so some THING, but you get people talking, and get people looking into what these things are and educating themselves. You have to remember, it's not China, but Russia is VERY closed off to the outside world. There is a lot of propaganda and misinformation being bandied about. Even something as simple as having hundreds of athletes come out in support of gay rights would get the people talking. It's not a direct form of education, but it does LEAD to education.
To use a really really basic example, if you think anyone who wears white shoes is a loser, and suddenly you see a huge amount of admirable people wearing white shoes, you're at very least going to question your judgement.
Some facts about rights and legal issues in Russia, as they relate to the sexual orientation of individuals:
The age of consent currently stands at 16 since 2003, regardless of sexual orientation.
Transsexual and transgender people can change their legal gender after corresponding medical procedures since 1997.
Homosexuality was officially removed from the Russian list of mental illnesses in 1999 (after endorsing ICD-10).
There is currently no legal recognition of same-sex unions in Russia, and same-sex marriages are not allowed. Public support for gay marriages is at 16% as of 2013.
As far as adoptions of children: single persons living within Russia, regardless of their sexual orientation, can adopt children. Russian children can be adopted by a single homosexual who lives in a foreign country provided that country does not recognize same-sex marriage. A couple can adopt children together, as a couple, only if they are a married heterosexual couple.
Gay people (at least officially) can serve in the military on a par with heterosexual people since 2003.
Public opinion in Russia tends to be among the most hostile toward homosexuality in the western world, and the level of intolerance has been rising. A 2013 survey found that 74% of Russians said homosexuality should not be accepted by society (up from 60% in 2002), compared to 16% who said that homosexuality should be accepted by society. In a 2007 survey, 68% of Russians said homosexuality is always wrong (54%) or almost always wrong (14%). In a 2005 poll, 44% of Russians were in favor of making homosexual acts between consenting adults a criminal act; at the same time, 43% of Russians supported a legal ban on discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. There is a visible LGBT community network, mostly in major cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg, including nightclubs and political organizations.
Same-sex marriages are not allowed in Russia. At a press conference, head of the Moscow Registry Office Irina Muravyova declared: "Attempts by same-sex couples to marry both in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia are doomed to fail. We live in a civil society, we are guided by the federal law, [and] by the Constitution that clearly says: marriage in Russia is between a man and a woman. Such a marriage [same-sex] cannot be contracted in Russia."
If it's truly a burden on them they're free to leave Russia. I support this law, and I'm not going to apologize to anyone for that. In Canada, we have freedom of speech laws and I'm completely entitled to my opinion. Also, if the vast majority of Russians find this offensive, then it's completely in line with a true democracy (most will probably confuse a democracy with a republic so read up on that if you want to argue that in a democracy minority rights are 100% guaranteed - in a democracy majority rules). At the end of the day everyone has to comply with laws and stay out of trouble. I don't disrespect gays and conversations end if sexuality is brought up - as that's rude. I comply with Canadian laws and even my own religious beliefs by respecting them but disagreeing with them on this issue. Considering this "community" has overwhelmingly large STD rates, that's a great risk to everyone's health. At the same time they could technically still do what they do in Russia, but they have to comply with Russian laws, just like anywhere else. If it means that much to them then they should move.
The olympics - are merely a commercial sporting event that shouldn't even exist or receive taxpayer money. If you want a rainbow patch, why does that take precedent over an anti-NSA patch or an anti-Federal Reserve patch? It's very ignorant for this group to steal attention from issues that are costing people their lives; and if you put a patch on olympic uniforms just for this group, then our national jerseys will end up looking like european hockey jerseys with tens of advert patches.
Last edited by korzym12; 08-26-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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If it's truly a burden on them they're free to leave Russia. I support this law, and I'm not going to apologize to anyone for that. In Canada, we have freedom of speech laws and I'm completely entitled to my opinion. Also, if the vast majority of Russians find this offensive, then it's completely in line with a true democracy (most will probably confuse a democracy with a republic so read up on that if you want to argue that in a democracy minority rights are 100% guaranteed - in a democracy majority rules). At the end of the day everyone has to comply with laws and stay out of trouble. I don't disrespect gays and conversations end if sexuality is brought up - as that's rude. I comply with Canadian laws and even my own religious beliefs by respecting them but disagreeing with them on this issue. At the same time they could technically still do what they do in Russia, but they have to comply with Russian laws, just like anywhere else. If it means that much to them then they should move.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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It's been that way since the modern Olympics started, various countries demonstrating their power and influence through sport. What a narrow lens to use to say otherwise.
Why not put a Syrian flag on jerseys instead of a rainbow? Hundreds of thousands of civilians, women and children have been killed in cold blood by "rebels" back by so called "righteous" western nations such as the US and Britain. Just so a pipeline for Qatar could be routed through Russian backed Syria.
This would just be a PR stint to discredit Russian objections to another Iraqi-adventure.
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It's been that way since the modern Olympics started, various countries demonstrating their power and influence through sport. What a narrow lens to use to say otherwise.
I think you're confusing the olympics with the united nations (anti-sovereignty)
