Breaking Bad

[trackercowe]

Well a little kid was brutally murdered, and Jesse's real father figure Mike is missing and likely dead (in his mind at least). Based on what we've seen from Jesse in the past it makes complete sense why he is in a state of depression at the moment. It would have been poor writing if he had gotten over these issues as quickly as you are hoping for. That and in the past we have seen how easily Jesse can fall into a state of depression, so this all fits his character perfectly.

Right thread.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Well a little kid was brutally murdered, and Jesse's real father figure Mike is missing and likely dead (in his mind at least). Based on what we've seen from Jesse in the past it makes complete sense why he is in a state of depression at the moment. It would have been poor writing if he had gotten over these issues as quickly as you are hoping for. That and in the past we have seen how easily Jesse can fall into a state of depression, so this all fits his character perfectly.

Right thread.

I'm not saying it's been crap. I have been a little underwhelmed at times that's all. It's just my opinion and I know a lot of you feel every episode is brilliant so we will just agree to disagree.

[Brewmaster]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

What are you talking about? How did they a) drop the ball; and b) paint themselves into a corner?

Also, it was Jesse's girlfiend's father who caused the plane crash....how did that have nothing to do with the characters?

The air plane crash storyline just felt forced to me. They had been building up to a big finale by showing body bags and evidence being picked out of the pool all season. Then the last episode came along and it turned out to be some random mid-air collision that happened to drop debris and bodies onto the Whites' house. They really could have left that entire part out of the series and it wouldn't have made any difference to the characters or the storyline.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

They really could have left that entire part out of the series and it wouldn't have made any difference to the characters or the storyline.

Are we watching the same show? Girl OD's on Walt's product, Walt lets girl die, distraught dad causes plane crash. How does that not make a difference to the storyline?

[Radio]

The plane crash was far from random.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by speede5

Are we watching the same show? Girl OD's on Walt's product, Walt lets girl die, distraught dad causes plane crash. How does that not make a difference to the storyline?

Jane didn't die on Walt's product. They were doing heroin, not meth.

Well, she started her backslide on meth, but they were doing heroin the days before and the day she died.

It's heroin that makes you pass out, meth ramps you up. And that's where the danger in throwing up in your sleep comes from. Remember, she even told Jesse that the first time he tried heroin. Basic upper/downer stuff here people. All you people who thanked his post can take it back.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by speede5

Are we watching the same show? Girl OD's on Walt's product, Walt lets girl die, distraught dad causes plane crash. How does that not make a difference to the storyline?

Weren't they doing heroin back then? Or was it the blue?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Jane didn't die on Walt's product. They were doing heroin, not meth.

Well, she started her backslide on meth, but they were doing heroin the days before and the day she died.

It's heroin that makes you pass out, meth ramps you up. And that's where the danger in throwing up in your sleep comes from. Remember, she even told Jesse that the first time he tried heroin. Basic upper/downer stuff here people. All you people who thanked his post can take it back.

It was still Walt's fault. He pressured Jesse to push more of the meth on recovering addicts, and lead him to meet and cause Jane to relapse.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Weren't they doing heroin back then? Or was it the blue?

Was it blue back then? I thought it was still clear before they got the methylamine.

[TurnedTheCorner]

It was blue before season one ended.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It was still Walt's fault. He pressured Jesse to push more of the meth on recovering addicts, and lead him to meet and cause Jane to relapse.

No, I think you've got Jesse's girlfriend's mixed up. Jane was his next door neighbour/landlord. Andrea was the one he met in rehab. And Walt never pressured Jesse to push meth on the recovering addicts, that was all Jesse's idea as he was working for Gus at that point.

[FlamesAddiction]

Am I the only one who thinks part Walt's decision to let nature take it's course with Jane was because Walt saw the harm she was doing to Jesse? I always had the impression that Walt saw the downward spiral Jesse was on and that was the tipping point. Jane was one of the more evil characters in the show IMO.

Walt had his own selfish reasons for wanting her out of the picture, but if she was a good person, I doubt he would have killed her. Just like he refuses to kill Hank even though it would solve his issues now..

[dirk diggler]

[QUOTE=FlamesAddiction;4368675]Am I the only one who thinks part Walt's decision to let nature take it's course with Jane was because Walt saw the harm she was doing to Jesse? I always had the impression that Walt saw the downward spiral Jesse was on and that was the tipping point. Jane was one of the more evil characters in the show IMO.

Walt had his own selfish reasons for wanting her out of the picture, but if she was a good person, I doubt he would have killed her. Just like he refuses to kill Hank even though it would solve his issues now.


it wasn't even that she was bad for Jesse, she threatened Walt and had basically said she would blackmail him. with her knowing what she did, it was an easy decision for Walt to let her die...

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Am I the only one who thinks part Walt's decision to let nature take it's course with Jane was because Walt saw the harm she was doing to Jesse? I always had the impression that Walt saw the downward spiral Jesse was on and that was the tipping point. Jane was one of the more evil characters in the show IMO.

Walt had his own selfish reasons for wanting her out of the picture, but if she was a good person, I doubt he would have killed her. Just like he refuses to kill Hank even though it would solve his issues now..

What the frig? Evil? She was just a recovering addict. How was she evil? Jesse had every right to say no to any drugs she offered just as she should have said no when he went to go get high and she wanted to help him.

It was just an unfortunate incident with two people who couldn't say no.

She never sold any drugs, she never killed anyone, she was just struggling and a little messed up. And may I mention, a year and a half clean until Jesse entered her life. This is not to blame her backslide on him, or completely on him, she should have had the sense to leave the house when he got high even though she wanted to help him get through Combo dying. Ultimately it's her life and her responsibility. But she was clean before that.

Man, again it seems like the female character gets looked at in a far harsher light than the male characters. I really wonder sometimes. I could go on, but I'll leave it alone and get back to Walt's actions.

Walt definitely did it for selfish reasons. And even if he wanted to make sure she had less influence on him, he definitely could have helped her in that moment. Who just let's a person die, especially when saving them takes almost no effort?

In fact, if he HAD saved her, that might have been her wake up call, or his. They might have looked at Walt differently, listened to him a bit. So much good could have come from it. But he let her die.

I do agree he had real concern for Jesse and the drugs then. But it wasn't his only concern or desire there. And even so, he could have approached it WAY differently and better.

EDIT: As for the blackmail bit, well addicted people do funny things when they want to get high. Funny enough, she wasn't really in the wrong though, it WAS Jesse's money. Walt wanting to hold it till Jesse got clean was a good thing, but it wasn't his decision to make ultimately. If you owe me money for services rendered, or based on an agreement, you have to pay me for those services, regardless of what I am doing in my life. I'll agree that Jesse probably shouldn't have gotten the money in that state of mind, and it was a good gesture to try and get him fixed up beforehand, but ultimately it was Jesse's money.

But Jane's actions are hardly evil. At worst their a junkie lashing out, and at best, they're actually quite fair, as it was his money.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It was still Walt's fault. He pressured Jesse to push more of the meth on recovering addicts, and lead him to meet and cause Jane to relapse.

Originally Posted by Wormius

Was it blue back then? I thought it was still clear before they got the methylamine.

As above, Walt never pressured Jesse to sell to addicts AND it had nothing to do with Jane. That was Jesse's idea and he stopped as soon as he had feelings for the second girlfriend Andrea. Who of course is Brock's mother.

The only thing Walt pressured Jesse to do when selling was expand the territory, which is what got Combo shot and started the problems with the two 'bad' dealers who ended up being in Gus's employ. Well he pressured Jesse to 'take care' of the guys who ripped off Skinny Pete too.

'You got jacked by a guy named Spooge?' Jesse to SP. lol

Secondly they got their methylamine before the second deal with Tuco, way back in season 1.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Walt isn't a bad dude. I think he's obviously the number 1 villain by this point. Just trying to clear up a few things.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Daradon

What the frig? Evil? She was just a recovering addict. How was she evil? Jesse had every right to say no to any drugs she offered just as she should have said no when he went to go get high and she wanted to help him.

It was just an unfortunate incident with two people who couldn't say no.

She never sold any drugs, she never killed anyone, she was just struggling and a little messed up. And may I mention, a year and a half clean until Jesse entered her life. This is not to blame her backslide on him, or completely on him, she should have had the sense to leave the house when he got high even though she wanted to help him get through Combo dying. Ultimately it's her life and her responsibility. But she was clean before that.

If she was a recovering addict, then it stands to reason she knew how evil heroin addiction is. Facilitating anyone to take heroin is a terrible thing to do to anyone, and I would say pretty evil.

Man, again it seems like the female character gets looked at in a far harsher light than the male characters. I really wonder sometimes. I could go on, but I'll leave it alone and get back to Walt's actions.

I don't think I'm the only one around here that gets a little offended every time you try to make into something sexist anytime someone doesn't like a female character in this show, so maybe cool it on that claim. If anything, it would be sexist to give her a pass due to her gender.. She was a mean spirited person who wanted Jesse for his money and what it could get her. At that point, Walt cared way more for Jesse's welfare than she did.

Walt definitely did it for selfish reasons. And even if he wanted to make sure she had less influence on him, he definitely could have helped her in that moment. Who just let's a person die, especially when saving them takes almost no effort?

In fact, if he HAD saved her, that might have been her wake up call, or his. They might have looked at Walt differently, listened to him a bit. So much good could have come from it. But he let her die.

They were in such a downward spiral at that time, I doubt it would have been a wake up call. Junkies don't tend to rationalize that easy. If anything Jesse would have been pissed about Walt being there at all.

[Bertuzzied]

Man this show is insane. I don't know who to cheer for??! Walt or Hank!

It's like the Canucks playing the Oilers in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals!!

Damn you Vince Gilligan!

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If she was a recovering addict, then it stands to reason she knew how evil heroin addiction is. Facilitating anyone to take heroin is a terrible thing to do to anyone, and I would say pretty evil.




I don't think I'm the only one around here that gets a little offended every time you try to make into something sexist anytime someone doesn't like a female character in this show, so maybe cool it on that claim. If anything, it would be sexist to give her a pass due to her gender.. She was a mean spirited person who wanted Jesse for his money and what it could get her. At that point, Walt cared way more for Jesse's welfare than she did.



They were in such a downward spiral at that time, I doubt it would have been a wake up call. Junkies don't tend to rationalize that easy. If anything Jesse would have been pissed about Walt being there at all.

Herion addiction is a thing. It can't be 'evil'. It it is generally used to indicate immoral behavior, which would indicate a person making a willful choice.

As for Jane offering it to Jesse, that's what addicts do. People always want to share their vices with other people. It justifies their behavior. People offer other people smokes, offer other people drinks, enjoy doing these things more when in groups. It's not really that different, it's just far more serious. It's dumb, it's shortsighted, but it's hardly evil, and as I just mentioned it's quite normal human behavior, everyone does it to a certain extent.

As for Jane wanting him for his money, she only found out about that at the end, so that doesn't really make any sense. They had been together and had strong feelings for a while. I'm not justifying her behavior because of sex, I'm not justifying it at all. I've said it was stupid. But it's not evil. Not evil in the same way people have killed each other in the show, or used each other in the show. If anything I've only made a reasoning that she was an addict, but I made the same reasoning for Jesse, so that's obviously not sexist. It's more an understanding of how addiction works.

As for your comments about sexism or commenting on it, I already said I wouldn't go further, but since you threw it back in my face, let me retort. It gets a little tiring to hear nearly every female character get ripped on as being annoying, or stupid, or evil, when the same characteristics (often even worse) barely gets noticed in the male characters. It's more, 'he's so badass', or 'he's just doing what needs to be done', or 'he's just having some fun'. It's not just here, it's all over the place, and was even brought up in an article at no, not a feminist website, but Rolling Stone magazine.

It's a ridiculous double standard and most guys can't even see it. As for whether you are participating or not, I'm not saying that you are. I was just making a general comment looking at the thread, and the attitudes of viewers as a whole. Not singling anyone out. Though evil (most evil character, in fact) is an awfully strong word to use for an addict who screws up.

As for 'every time "I" suggest sexism etc...' I think I may have done that once regarding this show. And not even strongly or in a mean fashion. It has however been brought up by other people in this thread and others for other shows, so maybe it feels like I've done it a lot.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Herion addiction is a thing. It can't be 'evil'. It it is generally used to indicate immoral behavior, which would indicate a person making a willful choice.

People that molest children are making a willful choice and I'd certainly call that evil.

Originally Posted by Daradon

As for 'every time "I" suggest sexism etc...' I think I may have done that once regarding this show. And not even strongly or in a mean fashion. It has however been brought up by other people in this thread and others for other shows, so maybe it feels like I've done it a lot.

Funny you have a problem understanding the hate for these female characters yet the actresses that play these characters understand perfectly why so many fans hate them.

Skylar and Betty (Mad Men) are two perfect examples and I've heard both say in numerous interviews that they understand completely why most fans despise their characters.

If a show is centered around a female character then I'm sure people complain about the men in their lives.

[Regulator75]

Anna Gunn writes a NY Times article on the hatred that Skyler has received.

As an actress, I realize that viewers are entitled to have whatever feelings they want about the characters they watch. But as a human being, I’m concerned that so many people react to Skyler with such venom. Could it be that they can’t stand a woman who won’t suffer silently or “stand by her man”? That they despise her because she won’t back down or give up? Or because she is, in fact, Walter’s equal?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/op...ter-issue.html