Alberta Flood Watch 2013

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Okay CP, time to put yourself in the Bigtime's shoes and tell me what you would do in our scenario:

Info:

-Live in Sunnyside
-undeveloped basement received 5' of water in the flood
-basement height is about 2' above ground level, so we flooded pretty much to the outside ground level

Renovation options:

1) Leave the basement as is and leave it undeveloped. With an eye to the future that the province and city will take steps to mitigate future floods. This could potentially allow us to renovate the basement in a few years to a less spartan condition (with all the flood proofing we can do).

2) Raise the house up 5', and backfill our basement. In essence getting rid of a below grade basement level. We have the height allowance in our area to accommodate this. However the cost to do it is ~$115,000.

With proper flood proofing materials done and sandbagging we can probably flood proof this new floor very well.

Thing was we were going to start a reno here in September, essentially gutting the main and upper levels and building it to be our house that we will live in until my wife and I are in the cold ground or sent to the old folks home.

The wild card in all of this is what the province will do to mitigate future flooding. If we go ahead and spend $115,000 raising the house and then in a year or two we have great flood prevention measures in place I may feel pretty stupid, as that was money that could have gone to the reno proper.

So what do you think CP?

I would wait until you see what actions the govt/city does in regards to flood mitigation.

[Rathji]

I wouldn't backfill your basement without doing some serious looking into how not being below the frostline will impact your house.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Ah, I read you post as the insurer will only cover 70% of the limit of the particular coverage. IE: Contents limit of $100,000.00 they will only pay $70,000.00

sort of but it is not so cut and dry as that.

So i followed up for an answer regarding this content issue for floods.
"If the insurance company is covering losses the claims adjuster is who determines what will be covered.
The claim adjuster in the case of a sewer back up claim should be able to calculate the values of the items lost and the replacement costs are for them. They are only covered for contents if it's an insured peril.
Then there is another matter of outside of the home such as landscaping. The claims adjuster will also determine the value of that loss".

[Bigtime]

While displaced I stayed in Blue Ridge Mountain estates (just across 12 Mile Coulee from Tuscany).

I wanted to kill myself every morning making the drive to work, and yes that is even with Sirius in my current car.

The drive home was even worse.

I guess I'm just not a "chill out and listen to some tunes while commuting" kind of guy. I want to be home fast, and my current 10 minute commute spoils me.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I wouldn't backfill your basement without doing some serious looking into how not being below the frostline will impact your house.

I know I was wondering (typing?) aloud in one of the threads, trying to come up with a reason why people in Canada have basements in the first place. Apparently frost is why; without a basement your house can heave with the frost and crack the foundation.

So yeah, be aware of that before you backfill it.

If I were in your shoes I would wait and see what the city/province is doing before starting anything, as well as insurance companies. No sense starting on anything until you know the full scope of the legislation across all 3 of those bodies. It would suck to finish a reno and then have your insurance company/city/province step in and suddenly change the rules.

[Rhettzky]

Thats a bunch of cash to raise your place Bigtime. You could develop your basement 5 or 6 times over for that money. That was a 1 in 100 flood and even though it seems to happen every 7 years you'd stil be ahead of the game.

Plus I'd always help with the demo too, it could become our flood ritual.

So yeah, my vote is to re-develop your basement every flood. You'd probably get pretty good at it after a while too.

[Flames in 07]

I was just going to say the same thing, why not rebuild per the AB mitigation terms? AB funding + insurance probably pays for most to all of it? For the cost of raising your place you could pay for alot of things, including new basements several times over.

I'm thinking we will do the AB mitigation route, use the basement as a work out area and some storage and build in some more back up like battery backed up pumps.

[GGG]

Instead of spending 115k raising the basement I would put $1000 per year in an account to pay for flood damage if it happens in the future and say to hell with the flood measures.

If you are really going to live in this place until you die the note on your property title doesn;t matter. And if every 25 years you have redo your basement that is fine, because it probably needed to be redone anyways.

[chemgear]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-warnings.html

The Alberta government is backing away from a plan to put warnings on land titles for properties in flood-risk zones. The government will instead work with the real estate industry to ensure prospective homeowners get the information they need before buying property at risk of flooding.

Homeowners who live on floodways and who will receive disaster aid this time must still have that notation made on their land titles, along with a warning that future funding won't be made available.

For property owners on the fringe of the flood zone and who are receiving aid, the warning will only be removed from their land titles after they meet new mitigation requirements designed to minimize basement damage in future floods.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-warnings.html

The Alberta government is backing away from a plan to put warnings on land titles for properties in flood-risk zones. The government will instead work with the real estate industry to ensure prospective homeowners get the information they need before buying property at risk of flooding.

Homeowners who live on floodways and who will receive disaster aid this time must still have that notation made on their land titles, along with a warning that future funding won't be made available.

For property owners on the fringe of the flood zone and who are receiving aid, the warning will only be removed from their land titles after they meet new mitigation requirements designed to minimize basement damage in future floods.

I'm telling you the best thing that has happened in this whole event for me is that Elbow Park flooded too. If that didn't happen, I doubt this would have happened.

[OldDutch]

Flood mitigation rules have changed. See two key things, electrical panel update, and use of "disposable materials" allowed.

Question, drywall is disposable, so is that now allowed?

http://alberta.ca/Flood-Mitigation.cfm

I allready have a panel in my garage, so I guess I no longer have to charge tax payers $8K to rewire my house. Guess I was mitigated, then not, now I am again! Good thing I did nothing!

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Flood mitigation rules have changed. See two key things, electrical panel update, and use of "disposable materials" allowed.

Question, drywall is disposable, so is that now allowed?

http://alberta.ca/Flood-Mitigation.cfm

I allready have a panel in my garage, so I guess I no longer have to charge tax payers $8K to rewire my house. Guess I was mitigated, then not, now I am again! Good thing I did nothing!

I don't understand this comment. Isn't the funding a fixed number based on square footage? If I understand the process right, it saves you 8k, does it not?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I don't understand this comment. Isn't the funding a fixed number based on square footage? If I understand the process right, it saves you 8k, does it not?

No idea, is it? I had a gov't contractor come and do an adjustment, but no one has contacted us in the 3 weeks since. I am in the dark on the payment scheme.

Originally they told us you got 15% above any payout on damage for the mitigation, then it was full reimbursement of the mitigation costs, now its price per square foot. I am just not sure myself.

When I made the comment I was going on the reimbursement plan. So I figured it would cost $8K, which I would get a cheque from the gov't for. Maybe that is not the case anymore.

Anyways, I don't think we are going to take the money at this point. We'll rebuild with the most important mitigation features, and drop the ones we see as pointless in our situation. Insurance still hasn't settled on a number so I guess it is wait and see for a few more weeks at least.

[Regulator75]

The Alberta government will offer to buy and tear down about 250 homes that were affected by the massive flooding in June.

The province estimates the floodway relocation compensation will be offered to 102 homeowners in High River, 50 in Calgary, 57 in Medicine Hat, 36 in Bragg Creek and nine in Black Diamond and Turner Valley.

Homeowners who chose not to relocate will still qualify for support from the Disaster Recovery Program to repair their properties. However, in the event of another flood, they will not be eligible again.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ies-ableg.html

[ranchlandsselling]

The deadline to apply for the buyout is Nov. 30. Only primary residences are eligible.

Probably why not a single Canmore property in that list.

[chemgear]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...462/story.html

Lavish flood buyouts may spawn unintended consequences

For many distressed homeowners, the deal will look very good. So good, in fact, that many more people who suffered disastrous flooding are going to want it, including those whose homes don’t quite fit within the closely-defined, and controversial, floodways.

Perhaps aware of this, the province excluded both Fort McMurray and Drumheller from the relocation program, on grounds that “these communities have unique circumstances” so there will be “local solutions.”

[Bunk]

So how will this work in Calgary - one person gets the buy-out and the Province tears down their home? The next house doesn't and that house stays. Not sure a swiss cheese street is a desirable outcome.

[Bigtime]

I am very curious to see where these 50 homes are in Calgary.

Bunk: Pocket parks all over the place!

[Bownesian]

Erlton, Roxborough, Rideau Park and some in Britannia, all along the Elbow. None in Bowness that I can see. Might be a couple along 52nd Street in Montgomery above the Hextall Bridge where the hill was severely eroded and looks unstable.

Looks to me like the changes to these regulations are starting to settle down at least.

That most recent iteration just added specific answers and clarifications about electrical panel possibilities (two that I specifically asked, specifically having the "main service panel" in the garage and a "sub-panel" (i.e. what I have now serving the rest of the house) where it is.

I'm glad we haven't started anything yet as facing this much change in the rules while restoring things would be frustrating.

[Violator]

Daily Planet looks at the science behind the Alberta floods during Dissecting Disaster week

Daily Planet looks at the science behind the Alberta floods during Dissecting Disaster week



In an upcoming sequence of The Daily Planet’s Dissecting Disaster week, respected hydrologist John Pomeroy is shown zooming above Kananaskis in a helicopter surveying damaged trails, washed out bridges and the scarred landscape caused by Alberta’s massive June flooding.
It’s a fairly action-packed sequence, particularly for one involving a balding, soft-spoken scientist who studies water.
But if the folks behind Discovery Channel’s celebration of all-thing scientific had their way, people like Pomeroy and others who work tirelessly to provide a post-mortem after a devastating disaster would always be viewed as heroic.
“The scientists aren’t there pulling someone out of burning building, but they are saving lives perhaps on an even larger scale than the first responders” says Daniel Riskin, the Edmonton-born evolutionary biologist who co-hosts Daily Planet with Ziya Tong. “And yet we don’t see them as heroes. And as a scientist, I’m partial to trying to help people see that and I think Daily Planet does a good job of showing that. These aren’t just boring people in lab coats that are tinkering away at pointless things. They are actively trying to help people’s lives stay better. Certainly all of southern Alberta is doing some real soul-searching about where to build homes, how to prepare for the next one. Those answers are coming from people like John Pomeroy.”
The devastating Alberta floods will be just one of the harrowing calamities Daily Planet will be investigating for the kickoff of its 19th season, a weeklong look at both natural and man-made disasters and how we respond to them.
It’s a response to what has seemed like an unusually high number of extreme weather and other disasters over the summer, including the train tragedy in Lac-Megantic, Quebec and tornadoes in the U.S.
Alberta’s water-soaked drama starts things off on Monday with a look at the science behind recovery efforts in High River, zeroing in on Canadian Dewatering’s attempt to pump flood water out of the devastated town.
The Pomeroy segment will run Sept. 3, closing off a week that will also cover the science behind tornado shelters in Oklahoma, the forensics of train crashes, groundbreaking volcano research on Indonesia’s Krakatoa and how squads in Hamburg, Germany are still dealing with underwater bombs left over from the Second World War.
Obviously, the flood prevention and High River episodes should generate the most interest here in Alberta. John Pomeroy will be familiar to those who have followed coverage of the flooding in Alberta. The Canada research chair in Water Resources from the University of Saskatchewan, Pomeroy and his staff man a weather station in Kananaskis Country. He has been vocal in suggesting that Alberta needs to improve its flood forecasting system, a sentiment he echoes on the Daily Planet.
“What they do is they create the computer models for the weather services and the flood predictors to use to determine when a flood may be imminent,” says producer Kelly Peckham, who oversaw both Alberta segments for Daily Planet. “As he says in the piece, if they create them then someone has to use them. I could sense frustration from him that there wasn’t more warning was given because they did know some time before the flood happened that it was likely.”

Peckham joins Pomeroy and his team two weeks after the floods in the Rockies as the scientists study things such as river flows and the levels of water trapped in the canopy on the mountains. He talks about the weird impact the Pine Beetle could have on future flooding and, perhaps most disturbingly, reveals how easily it could all happen again.
“The big fear, while we were shooting (two weeks after the floods), was that there was such incredible saturation of the ground in the mountains and on the mountain floor,” Peckham says. “Even up in the Alpine regions at the very tops of the mountains, we were in rubber boots. With that much water, had there been heavy rain within a week or two or when we were actually there, there would be nothing to stop it from being another cataclysmic event.”
Meanwhile, in High River, Daily Planet looks at the efforts of Canadian Dewatering to pump out 1.3-billion gallons of water out of the town, another segment that seems to act as a bit of cautionary tale.
“It’s basically explained that High River is in a prairie basin,” says Peckham. “When the water gets in, there’s nowhere for it to go. If it weren’t pumped out, it would be 100 years or more for that water to actually leave, if it ever did. It would likely be a permanent lake. Those are the facts from the scientists. From there, someone has to say ‘What does that mean for us in terms of where we build our homes and how we build our communities.’”
That said, Daily Planet tends not to delve into debating political solutions. But Riskin says he hopes a week’s worth of studying disasters — either how to respond to them or avoid them in the first place — will spotlight the importance of science in how those solutions will be achieved.
“I really do see these scientists as heroes,” he says. “The work that they do in the three years or the 30 years leading up to the event deserves recognition. We often take our scientists for granted. They really do have a big hand in making our lives safer and better.”
Daily Planet’s Dissecting Disaster Week beings Monday on the Discovery Channel. The segment on High River will run on Monday. The segment on studying the flood in the Rockies will air Sept. 3.

Seems really quick to have a show before most of the recovery and controversy has subsided.