All-Time Hockey Fantasy Draft 2.0 (*iLoveLamp, Fransken, RichKlit, dammage79)

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Hatter

D Viacheslav Fetisov for me!

I knew that was coming right quick there.

That is a very solid pick and easily the best defenseman left on the board (and better than a few selected before him as well). The best defenseman that Russia has ever produced.

To add a bit more discussion to this I will give my opinions on who I think are the steals and the reaches of each round (excluding my own team)

First round - Steal: Messier. Reach: Clarke/Crosby. - Nothing against either player (I do question Crosby's durability) but I think that there were either better players with a higher peak in the case of Clarke or a better overall career in the case of Crosby, although it is impossible to judge the future. I think that Messier was a good pick, I think that the latter 1/3rd of his career does put a bit of a bad taste in many people's mouths though.

Second Round - Steal: Stan Mikita. Reach: Eric Lindros. I think that Lindros was a fine player but the durability aspect rears it's head once again. There were also questions that continually floated around regarding personality conflicts... however that could be forgiven to a certain degree knowing how big of a dick Bobby Clarke could be. I think that Lindros gets a bit of a free pass due to the what could have been questions.

Third Round - Steal: Red Kelly. Reach: Jonathan Toews/Larry Murphy. I think that Toews gets slightly overrated at times, a really good young player but has never been the best in the league and there are better players from the same era (Datsyuk comes to mind). Larry Murphy is pretty meh and while a good offensive defenseman, he benefited greatly from playing on stacked teams and in an offensive era.

[PlayfulGenius]

I thought I might be able to get both Fetisov and Makarov in the coming rounds... I was hoping to get all 5 from my avatar image .. or whatever its called over to the left.

[Hockey_Ninja]

It's pretty shocking how LW seems to have the least amount of superstars throughout history.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

It's pretty shocking how LW seems to have the least amount of superstars throughout history.

except in recent years its stacked... there's been a flip-flop in comparing RW/LW skill-wise in the NHL... LW is more dominant in the current game.

[powderjunkie]

Toews mini-slump during the playoffs was unfortunate - 2 cups at a young age, but he wasn't as impactful this year. He's still got a high ceiling, but I'd have taken Datsyuk before him.

I think Dionne at 37 is the biggest steal so far.

For me, Belfour is a reach - I think he is near the top of a second tier of goalies after Roy/Brodeur/Hasek/Sawchuk, but there is a wide crop of them. I suppose I look at Kipper and Dryden the same way - nothing wrong with them, but there are just so many comparables.

I admit Fleury was taken a touch early, but I have my reasons.

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Toews mini-slump during the playoffs was unfortunate - 2 cups at a young age, but he wasn't as impactful this year. He's still got a high ceiling, but I'd have taken Datsyuk before him.

I think Dionne at 37 is the biggest steal so far.

For me, Belfour is a reach - I think he is near the top of a second tier of goalies after Roy/Brodeur/Hasek/Sawchuk, but there is a wide crop of them. I suppose I look at Kipper and Dryden the same way - nothing wrong with them, but there are just so many comparables.

I admit Fleury was taken a touch early, but I have my reasons.

Ed belfour is the third most winningest goalie of all time, and had almot 100 more wins than Hasek. He also had a better career save percentage than Roy and Sawchuck.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Iniggywetrust

Ed belfour is the third most winningest goalie of all time, and had almot 100 more wins than Hasek. He also had a better career save percentage than Roy and Sawchuck.

That's fair, but if I have to win one critical game/series, I would be a lot happier with one of the top 4 I listed than Belfour, but there are a lot of guys that I would feel equally contented to have as the Eagle. That said, over the course of an entire career, Eddie does inch closer to those guys IMO...

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I knew that was coming right quick there.

That is a very solid pick and easily the best defenseman left on the board (and better than a few selected before him as well). The best defenseman that Russia has ever produced.

To add a bit more discussion to this I will give my opinions on who I think are the steals and the reaches of each round (excluding my own team)

First round - Steal: Messier. Reach: Clarke/Crosby. - Nothing against either player (I do question Crosby's durability) but I think that there were either better players with a higher peak in the case of Clarke or a better overall career in the case of Crosby, although it is impossible to judge the future. I think that Messier was a good pick, I think that the latter 1/3rd of his career does put a bit of a bad taste in many people's mouths though.

Second Round - Steal: Stan Mikita. Reach: Eric Lindros. I think that Lindros was a fine player but the durability aspect rears it's head once again. There were also questions that continually floated around regarding personality conflicts... however that could be forgiven to a certain degree knowing how big of a dick Bobby Clarke could be. I think that Lindros gets a bit of a free pass due to the what could have been questions.

Third Round - Steal: Red Kelly. Reach: Jonathan Toews/Larry Murphy. I think that Toews gets slightly overrated at times, a really good young player but has never been the best in the league and there are better players from the same era (Datsyuk comes to mind). Larry Murphy is pretty meh and while a good offensive defenseman, he benefited greatly from playing on stacked teams and in an offensive era.

When judging all-time, people tend to either prefer Longevity or Peak... I certainly fall on the side of Peak... Therefore, Lindros is very high on my list. I took him as my 1st line C in last years draft.

I like that you're going to analyze every round, it makes for great conversation and debate, I may copy you

[Hockey_Ninja]

Nice to see that Mikita was recognized as a steal. I did my research and he has everything i wanted in my top line center. I was torn between him and Dionne but seeing how Mikita is always ranked ahead of him on top 100 lists the choice was pretty easy.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think Dionne at 37 is the biggest steal so far.

[Hockey]

I can't remember where I picked in the last draft, but Dionne was my 1st pick, so I say its a steal for sure.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by Hockey

I can't remember where I picked in the last draft, but Dionne was my 1st pick, so I say its a steal for sure.

You picked him 11th overall last time

[Drake]

Flipping flopping between two goalies here, I'll go with, Jacques Plante:

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Iniggywetrust

Ed belfour is the third most winningest goalie of all time, and had almot 100 more wins than Hasek. He also had a better career save percentage than Roy and Sawchuck.

Belfour is ranked low on my lists because he has an awful attitude and he won a lot of games because he played for really good teams for large portions of his career. Chicago was a very good team for a large portion of the early 90s (granted Belfour was a big part of that), Dallas was also a very good team and there really wasn't a massive dropoff when Turco (shut up no one would select him anyway ) came in the year after he left... He put up a few good seasons with Toronto but do you know who also put up 37 wins with Toronto the year after Belfour left... Andrew Raycroft.

I think that Ed Belfour is a really good goaltender who benefited heavily from playing on some really, really good teams.

As for career save percentage, his was lower than Roy's having played in a lower scoring era ie not the 80s.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

When judging all-time, people tend to either prefer Longevity or Peak... I certainly fall on the side of Peak... Therefore, Lindros is very high on my list. I took him as my 1st line C in last years draft.

I like that you're going to analyze every round, it makes for great conversation and debate, I may copy you

I tend to place roughly 60-70% on longevity and 30-40% on peak. That being said if someone is lacking one or the other (the Rob Brown effect of high peak, no longevity) I value the one that is lacking greater. That is why I am not overly taken with players who possess a long career of being constantly pretty good or those who have a short career of being really very good. I find that people generally let their imaginations get carried away when talking about those players and the what could have been factor.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Drake

Flipping flopping between two goalies here, I'll go with, Jacques Plante:

Easily the best goaltender available.

[trackercowe]

Damn was hoping Plante would fall to me.

In terms of reaching/steals I'll go with:
First round: Crosby (runner up Lidstrom). Not really much to choose from here, but I really don't think Crosby is a viable first round pick yet. Personally if you had to rank the best players of all-time as of now I would rank him right there with Ovechkin. Some might disagree, but I think they are very close together overall. Messier is probably the best steal of the first round, but not by a long shot. I'd say he's a top ten player all time though.

Second round: Once again gotta agree with MMM that Lindros was a reach. I don't think even at his best he was ever going to be that great of player. I also wouldn't consider him a top 50 player all-time anymore, maybe even top 100 if I thought about it. Runner up would be Bure, but Hockey only took him because he was his favorite player. Steal would be Dionne, I was going to take him next and had hoped Ovechkin would be available next time around. Although I am pretty happy with Ovechkin considering he'll probably end up having the third most Hart Trophies by the end of his career (only Gretzky and Howe will have more). Considering Ovechkin plays in a 30 team league having that many is a major accomplishment in my mind.

Third Round: This is where things get interesting as there can be a lot of variability. I think taking Fleury that high is a bit of a reach, mostly because of the other guy still not being taken. And yeah Toews was sort of a reach as well with Datsyuk still on the board. Can't really say who is a steal. I guess Shore is, but he was taken much lower last draft. I sort of wanted to put him with Orr, but in wanting to stick to NHLers after expansion I decided against it. Kurri was also a very solid pick since we're now at the point where you need to take great secondary pieces and not necessarily franchise guys.

But yeah pretty choked Dionne was taken one ahead of me... Just wonder if Ovechkin is taken before I had another chance at him.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I missed Shore actually, he was a pretty big steal and a player who I was really hoping would fall. All in all it is hard to find fault in any player taken because they are all great hockey players who were top 10 players for there era - with the possible exception of Gretzky, that guy is a bum.

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Easily the best goaltender available.

I actually think that when picking a goalie, you have to pick someone from.the modern era.. Goalie like Plante, Sawchuck, and other older goalies would absolutely get lit up by some of the really skilled forwards we are picking.

I know its tough to determine but is Plante a better goalie than Kipprusoff? Or evem Luongo? I'd have to say absolutely not.

[kyuss275]

Kyuss275 is proud to pick with the 65th selection, Center Dale Hawerchuck.