Jokerit signs Leland Irving

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This is not bad development this is bad drafting

Wrong.

I get the whole CP freakout about goaltenders in the first round but Irving has always been projected to be a NHL goaltender. He had a solid WHL career and while he had a tough sophomore season with the Heat, he bounced back with a MVP year. I thought he had a pretty good 2011-12 season too.

The fact that his career fell off the rails says something about the Flames development system and nothing about the Flames drafting system.

[Tinordi]

Dude just wasn't good enough. Never looked like an NHL goalie.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Wrong.

I get the whole CP freakout about goaltenders in the first round but Irving has always been projected to be a NHL goaltender. He had a solid WHL career and while he had a tough sophomore season with the Heat, he bounced back with a MVP year. I thought he had a pretty good 2011-12 season too.

The fact that his career fell off the rails says something about the Flames development system and nothing about the Flames drafting system.

At the same time, even with projection it's still not a perfect science. Not to directly defend the Flames development since it has yet to show results from poor drafting, but it just looked like Irving busted. Maybe could have had more playing time earlier but being ripened to this point just shows that he's not fit for the NHL... At least not now.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Really?

I totally agree that the Flames previously had a combination of poor drafting and developing but I don't know if I'd point to Irving as an example here. He was giving a plethora of chances and seemed to choke when his big time came. He had a massive opportunity this past season and squandered it.

All the best to Irving.

Different ways of looking at things. This past season was his first real shot and he failed. Leading up to that is where he wasn't prepared properly IMO.

He had a good season in the AHL a few seasons ago and seemed on an upward trend, was called up to ride the pine for a few games, when he went back down to the AHL they ended up riding the hot goalie and Irving sat for large parts of the season.

I know coaches need to win, but I'll never understand where it benefits the Calgary Flames when the minor league team sits a prospect goalie over a goalie on a minor league contract. Especially when Irving was playing well at the time.

[1991 Canadian]

In relation to Leland's development (or lack there of), does anyone know if he had to deal with a lack of an AHL goalie coach early in his career?

The only reason I ask is because I remember J.S. Giguere on a HNIC after hours segment saying he didn't have a dedicated goalie coach when he was with the St. John's Flames.

I know the Heat have a dedicated goalie coach now, but does anyone know how long it took Calgary to realize that they'd keep burning through goaltending prospects without a proper goalie coach?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Really?

I totally agree that the Flames previously had a combination of poor drafting and developing but I don't know if I'd point to Irving as an example here. He was giving a plethora of chances and seemed to choke when his big time came. He had a massive opportunity this past season and squandered it.

Well, the #1 Goalie prospect (at the time) for the organization gets less playing time than Ward favorite Danny Taylor and Barry Brust during the lockout. This was after winning the backup job the year previous and not getting any real playing time after being sent down for the AHL playoffs after the Flames failed to make the playoffs in 11-12 season (again, Ward goes with Taylor).

Call it what you will, but we gave a bucket load of starts to a guy who is no longer playing for us and had no future with the club.

It certainly wasn't an optimal level of development for Irving.

[JiriHrdina]

Man that 2006 draft will go down as one of the worst for the Flames. 8 picks in total - 13 games played combined and that number will likely go no higher.
It actually looked promising at the time
- Armstrong was a guy that looked like a sure bet to make the NHL in some capacity, likely depth player. Injuries ended that for the most part
- Puustinen scored a lot, seemed like could be a steal
- Per Jonsson impressed some at dev camp.

We can no officially put a wraps on that year and it ain't good.

Basically from the 2005 and 2006 drafts the best player the Flames got was Brett Sutter (there is some irony in that given the outrage by some at the time that the pick was nothing more than nepotism)

[Tinordi]

Jiri, here's a post mortem on the 2006 draft. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...algary_flames/

In fairness, that draft out of the first round was very bad.

Here's a list of players from 2006 selected after Round 1:

Lucic
Kulemin
Nodl
McGinn
Mattias
McBain
Marchand
Clutterbuck
Mason
Reimer
Dorsett
Stalberg
Condra
Neuvirth

[Huntingwhale]

Wish him all the best, but he clearly isn't cut to be an NHL quality goaltender. Every game I watched live last year was a disaster for him. No rebound control, poor angles, and couldn't really fight to see the puck. Hope he does well overseas.

[Fire]

I pray that we don't look back at the last two drafts in 5-7 years saying the same things.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Well, the #1 Goalie prospect (at the time) for the organization gets less playing time than Ward favorite Danny Taylor and Barry Brust during the lockout. This was after winning the backup job the year previous and not getting any real playing time after being sent down for the AHL playoffs after the Flames failed to make the playoffs in 11-12 season (again, Ward goes with Taylor).

Call it what you will, but we gave a bucket load of starts to a guy who is no longer playing for us and had no future with the club.

It certainly wasn't an optimal level of development for Irving.

PMM can probably expand on this but if I recall correctly Irving was limited to a certain amount of starts/dresses in the AHL last year due to his waiver eligibility. I think they made the best of rough situation during the lock out.

[Sainters7]

Best of luck, always seemed like a good dude.

Trevor Kidd - Brent Krahn - Leland Irving...can we never draft a goalie in the first round again please?

The worst is seeing other goalies the Flames passed on in those draft years. Everyone knows the Kidd over Brodeur debacle in 1990. But in 2000, when selecting Krahn, other goalies in that draft year drafted after Krahn were: Bryzgalov, Cechmanek, and Henrik Lundqvist. Yeeeeeeah.....

[byronkentgraham]

Originally Posted by moon

He got a terrible rep here from many fans when he was much better than other goalies (ie Taylor) but still never showed enough to warrant a NHL deal.

Hope for the best for him in Finland and that he can get back to the NHL at some point soon.

He wasn't better than Taylor though. That's why both Taylor and Brust were ahead of him for the heat.

[moon]

Originally Posted by byronkentgraham

He wasn't better than Taylor though. That's why both Taylor and Brust were ahead of him for the heat.

He was a lot better than Taylor in their short times in the NHL. I don't really care who was or wasn't better in the AHL.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by byronkentgraham

He wasn't better than Taylor though. That's why both Taylor and Brust were ahead of him for the heat.

It appears he fell in Ward's doghouse and it seems like you are either one of Ward's guys or you aren't going to play much.

[indes]

Irving was mishandled for sure, riding the pine in the AHL the whole time and never getting a chance to get it going before he came to the NHL. I couldn't believe they would sit a guy that long in the A and then expect him to perform in the big leagues

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This is not bad development this is bad drafting

I think it has to do a little with both. He definitely shouldn't have been drafted in the 1st round.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Jokerit is a pretty serious club, and will join the KHL after this season.

I'm with moon on this one, I think Irving got the short end of the stick just as he was starting to reach an NHL-level of ability.

His on-ice performance at the NHL level, especially in 2011-2012. suggested to me that he has the tools to be in the big show. How he only gets 18 GP in the AHL and NHL combined the following season is beyond me.

Good thing the organization gave so much ice to Brust's development instead. Now Zagreb Medvascak will have the best starter they've ever had for their season opener against CSKA!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Good thing the organization gave so much ice to Brust's development instead. Now Zagreb Medvascak will have the best starter they've ever had for their season opener against CSKA!

Yeah I feel when you invest a 1st round draft pick in a guy like Irving you have to give them every chance possible to succeed and it seems like Ward is always looking for the players that best help him win. I'm all for that if he's coaching the Flames but there's more to the Heat than winning hockey games. I wouldn't care if the Heat was a mediocre team as long as the Flames prospects were getting ample chance to develope and make the NHL. Not sure if that is happening under Ward. It was pretty ridiculous that the guy that the Flames annointed as their backup going into the 2013 season was the guy Ward had burried as 3rd string.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Good luck Leland.