Because salaried sales employees should understand that weekend travel is part of the job.
If I was a waged employee that had to build widgets I was going to sell then fair enough. That's called overtime, and you punch a card that shows it. But because you are salary and work in sales, there are a number of perks that are enjoyed during working hours that I allow. I don't stand over my employees checking productivity sheets all day, asking what they are doing every minute of the day. The tradeoff for that is when I need something done outside normal working hours it doesn't turn into extra holiday time.
I don't like people working for me that don't see the difference.
Where does the line stop though so it is fair to both parties? One day a month, one day a week? You seem like a nice boss by not hovering over your employees, but really if you have to hover they probably shouldn't be working for you anyways, so with that it doesn't make sense why they shouldn't be paid for time spent doing things for the company on their own time.
Where does the line stop though so it is fair to both parties? One day a month, one day a week? You seem like a nice boss by not hovering over your employees, but really if you have to hover they probably shouldn't be working for you anyways, so with that it doesn't make sense why they shouldn't be paid for time spent doing things for the company on their own time.
Where people decide they aren't being compensated enough and look elsewhere. If the expectations are clear it'd take some nerve to moan about it after the fact.
That last part is the crux of it. It's not their own time, they're expected to be able to work when needed 24/7 apparently. I can see why people wouldn't want to do that, but then they should be working elsewhere.
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A punchclock attitude towards white collar work annoys me.
I agree with the poster and my take on this is that salaried work isn't an hour for hour scorekeeping excercise (And I question how dedicated one is to their job or profession if they make it out to be such). The rewards and productivity of said labour are measured over longer periods of time and cannot be summed in simple units of time. Typically this kind of employment enjoys many benefits that hourly work does not have such as higher pay and less demanding physical work conditions.
Agreed.
I travel on weekends to fly to the east coast for monday meetings because I have no choice if I want to make the monday meeting.
I'll drive to Edmonton in my evenings and spend the night in a hotel to get started early the next day.
I'm salaried but my contract is something like 37.5 hours a week.
I eat lunch at my desk daily and leave early when I feel like it. I'll work unit 9:00pm when required and sometimes come in late. I leave for a Dr. / Dentist / appointment when I need to and if I've got a contractor coming to my house I simply tell my boss I'll be in later because I've got a contractor coming to my house. My car breaks down - I take it to the shop and work from home or come in a bit late and leave early to make sure I can get it before they close.
The extra hours goes towards building my career and the effort I put into being a good employee is reciprocated with the above I just listed. Plus sometimes the extra hours work out to benefit me.
That's what salaried means to me...
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Because salaried sales employees should understand that weekend travel is part of the job.
If I was a waged employee that had to build widgets I was going to sell then fair enough. That's called overtime, and you punch a card that shows it. But because you are salary and work in sales, there are a number of perks that are enjoyed during working hours that I allow. I don't stand over my employees checking productivity sheets all day, asking what they are doing every minute of the day. The tradeoff for that is when I need something done outside normal working hours it doesn't turn into extra holiday time.
I don't like people working for me that don't see the difference.
So just because they are salary they should be at your beck and call and use their time to travel because you don't watch over them closely other days?
Salary doesn't mean they should work whenever you need them to. There is an expectation of basic general days/hours. If your offer of employment included the fact that they would need to put in extra time as needed to travel, then it's on them, but I don't know what you include in your offers so...
Sorry, but you sound like you expect quite a bit from your employees. Kind of glad I don't work for you.
Absolutely. We're highly seasonal, and follow construction trends (which are weather related). Construction projects run 24/7 through the summer, and we get all kinds of calls at all kinds of weird hours (we cover the US as well) from guys that need things. If I don't supply it someone else will. All my employees know this well in advance of getting hired/promoted.
Winter is a different story, when workload is cut in half.
So yeah, when a sales guy (or any of our office staff for that matter) does something on a Saturday then books off a Friday before a long weekend in the middle of summer I get annoyed. If you want to do something "by the book" or demand time in lieu of work "on my personal time" then be prepared for me to demand the same when I see you surfing the internet at 2 PM on a Wednesday in the middle of winter, and are getting paid to do it.
And I do agree with this it should go both ways, and I personally have no problem with that,if you are at work you should be working. (Now that all being said I sorta understand what you are saying with the give and take)
A punchclock attitude towards white collar work annoys me.
I agree with the poster and my take on this is that salaried work isn't an hour for hour scorekeeping excercise (And I question how dedicated one is to their job or profession if they make it out to be such). The rewards and productivity of said labour are measured over longer periods of time and cannot be summed in simple units of time. Typically this kind of employment enjoys many benefits that hourly work does not have such as higher pay and less demanding physical work conditions.
Unless you are an attorney. And then it can be, at worst, a 6 minute by 6 minute scorekeeping exercise.
A punchclock attitude towards white collar work annoys me.
I agree with the poster and my take on this is that salaried work isn't an hour for hour scorekeeping excercise (And I question how dedicated one is to their job or profession if they make it out to be such). The rewards and productivity of said labour are measured over longer periods of time and cannot be summed in simple units of time. Typically this kind of employment enjoys many benefits that hourly work does not have such as higher pay and less demanding physical work conditions.
I dunno somedays,I think I preferred the higher demanding physical demands then being in an office overall I feel more fatigued now then I ever did at a physical laboured job. Not saying I don't totally disagree with what you an from are saying but unfortunately there are a lot of employers that will take advantage of the expectation of putting in a "little here and there"
^^The op said he was not working the weekend,that is clear.
Usually on a trip that is more then one week where you do not work the weekend, you either fly back and forth, or you hang in the city your working in.
I use this time to explore around, its a non-issue. Lets see, spending a weekend exploring around in New Orleans or San Francisco is not such a bad thing. There is no way you should get paid for that, unless you are working it. Now working the weekend on the road and that's a different story, that can be extremely stressful because you typically will have a very tight deadline, in that case then its just like working a weekend in Calgary and you should get compensated as per standard ot.
Last edited by Flamenspiel; 08-19-2013 at 12:33 PM.
I dunno somedays,I think I preferred the higher demanding physical demands then being in an office overall I feel more fatigued now then I ever did at a physical laboured job. Not saying I don't totally disagree with what you an from are saying but unfortunately there are a lot of employers that will take advantage of the expectation of putting in a "little here and there"
Definately there are companies that are white collar sweat shops with bosses that e-mail frequently and expect responses and work done immediately whether it's a weekday evening or middle of the day Saturday etc. Personally I wouldn't put up with that if there wasn't a corresponding bump in pay or bonuses or experience that helps me move up or on later vs. a role that didn't have those expectations. But the measuring stick for that for me would be annual and measured in terms of work accomplished or achieved, instead of coming to my boss with an amount of hours I worked on a particular weekend and expecting to be paid overtime at a perscribed rate per hour or anything.
^^The op said he was not working the weekend,that is clear.
Usually on a trip that is more then one week where you do not work the weekend, you either fly back and forth or you hang in the city your working in.
I use this time to explore around, its a non-issue. Lets see, exploring around in New Orleans or San Francisco is not such a bad thing. There is no way you should get paid for that, unless you are working it. I've worked weekend as well on the road and that's a different story, then its just like working a weekend in Calgary and you should get compensated
As I hinted at earlier, I know some people that have a variety of arrangements with their company. A friend of mine, who is an engineer with an oil company in Texas, recently went on a business trip to the plant of a separate company in Nevada to troubleshoot some issue. The trip was over a week in length and spanned over the weekend. He was paid his day rate each day he was gone, including 2 weekend days in which he did not work. The arrangements here are a little different though, as the plant in question is a separate company and undoubtedly paid my friend's company a bulk fee to send the engineer over. They all probably decided in advance that they would not be working on the weekend, but my friend was still paid either way by his company. His hotel and per diem were covered for the weekend, and he even flew his wife over for the weekend for a couple nights in Vegas- this was on his dime of course, but his per diem covered the Vegas hotel, no problem with his employer as the hotel was under the $200 a night hotel allowance. Obviously a company contracting out the services to another company is a lot different than an organization sending out one of their employees to conduct work in the field at one of their own stations or plants etc...
Anyway, I don't have any real expectations for time in lieu of, but it is interesting to see what arrangements everyone else has.
Last edited by Flabbibulin; 08-19-2013 at 12:52 PM.
From the sounds of the OP, it's not just going to be a "here and there" thing, it sounds as though there will be quite a bit of travel including quite a few weekend stays. I can definitely appreciate that it could wear you down a bit if you aren't happy to "explore" each of the places you travel to. If that's the case, you can ask for compensation, but you may just want to look for a different job.
So just because they are salary they should be at your beck and call and use their time to travel because you don't watch over them closely other days?
Salary doesn't mean they should work whenever you need them to. There is an expectation of basic general days/hours. If your offer of employment included the fact that they would need to put in extra time as needed to travel, then it's on them, but I don't know what you include in your offers so...
Sorry, but you sound like you expect quite a bit from your employees. Kind of glad I don't work for you.
That's fine. I don't expect any more from my employees than I expect from myself, and I work right alongside all of them whether it be a weekday or weekend.
If you can't perform under those expectations, then I'm glad you don't work for me either. So are my clients.
In my line of work, I consider myself on call 24 hours a day. If something was urgent enough to have my boss calling me at 3 am, I am probably a lot happier that I heard about it right away than waiting until I get in at 8:30.
Of course, my boss wouldn't do something like that unless something so important was broken that if he didn't call me, I would be supremely pissed off.
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Last edited by Rathji; 08-19-2013 at 03:26 PM.
Reason: apparently I work for fish now
In my line of work, I consider myself on call 24 hours a day. If something was urgent enough to have my bass calling me at 3 am, I am probably a lot happier that I heard about it right away than waiting until I get in at 8:30.
Of course, my boss wouldn't do something like that unless something so important was broken that if he didn't call me, I would be supremely pissed off.
There is something fishy about this post...
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If it's just a North American flight and nothing else, you don't get anything but meal expenses. If it's early flight+meeting on say, a Sunday, which does happen, then its expenses + half day in lieu. If it's a tradeshow all day Saturday then a red-eye home, you get a full day in lieu.
Overseas, there's a ton more leeway given, more to help ensure good mental health.
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Should salaried employees not be compensated if they have to spend the weekend in some place where the most exciting thing to do is stay in your room and watch tv?
Not every place is a tourist destination that's worth exploring.
