Should players, sports organizations, or the whole COC boycott the Sochi Olympics?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Put your money where your mouth is. How many of you would quit your job to send a futile message to the Russian government that you know fully well they are not likely to soften their stance? Really how many here would quit their job for this principal? All you people that busted your hump the last four years to get to where you are at the company you work at. All the sacrifices to your family. Just throw all that away to protest this. This is what you are expecting of the athletes.

There is a lot of selfish in this thread but it's not the athletes or Canadians. It's the hypocrites that expect people who have invested a large chunk of their lives in their sports to throw that away for a futile cause to appease a forum warrier using his keyboard to emphasize his nobleness.

This isn't remotely comparable nor relevant. Try again.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by valo403

This isn't remotely comparable nor relevant. Try again.

Yes it is. Just goes to show how out of touch some of you are with the sacrifices many of these athletes make to chase their Olympic dream.

[The Yen Man]

Gotta agree with EE on this one. It's easy for people to tell other people to boycott the events or give up their dreams. I think it's incredibly selfish to expect Olympic athlete's to give up to make a protest. If you're really outraged, why aren't you flying over to Russia and protesting the law yourselves? Why aren't you doing more to educate the Russian population. Why are you looking to other people to make a stand for you?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes it is. Just goes to show how out of touch some of you are with the sacrifices many of these athletes make to chase their Olympic dream.

No, sorry but it's not. A boycott doesn't result in an athlete losing their job as an athlete (which is hardly a job to begin with considering the pay). They'd still be carded athletes.

And I'm not out of touch at all. I know people who are in serious contention for olympic spots.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Gotta agree with EE on this one. It's easy for people to tell other people to boycott the events or give up their dreams. I think it's incredibly selfish to expect Olympic athlete's to give up to make a protest. If you're really outraged, why aren't you flying over to Russia and protesting the law yourselves? Why aren't you doing more to educate the Russian population. Why are you looking to other people to make a stand for you?

Umm because a stand taken by an entire country, or collection of countries, carries a hell of a lot more weight?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

If you're really outraged, why aren't you flying over to Russia and protesting the law yourselves? Why aren't you doing more to educate the Russian population. Why are you looking to other people to make a stand for you?

Because I don't want to get arrested...the whole.farking.point.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by valo403

No, sorry but it's not. A boycott doesn't result in an athlete losing their job as an athlete (which is hardly a job to begin with considering the pay). They'd still be carded athletes.

And I'm not out of touch at all. I know people who are in serious contention for olympic spots.

If an athelete boycotted alone, IE: took a stand as an individual, would they still be carded? I assume, but don't know, that card status (I think there are 3 levels?) is contingent on results in competition.

If the Canadian team boycotted, then it might be different.

Also, just because something doesn't pay well does not mean it is not a job, but I hope/think that wasn't the point of your sentence.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by valo403

No, sorry but it's not. A boycott doesn't result in an athlete losing their job as an athlete (which is hardly a job to begin with considering the pay). They'd still be carded athletes.

And I'm not out of touch at all. I know people who are in serious contention for olympic spots.

Not only that, but the Olympics aren't the only thing in sport. Stanley Cup / Tour de France / New York Marathon, etc. There are other venues for athletes to shine.

That said, it would be nice to see athletes wear something in support in the opening ceremonies... Rainbow toques?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So 2500 is not thousands?

Just pointing out that the Canadian umbrella of winter athletes is just 200 not thousands. Most seem to be referencing Canada doing something but if you want to talk about every country boycotting then you get 2,000 to 3,000 yes.

Not sure how many gay people are in Russia out of their 145,000,000 total population.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by valo403

This isn't remotely comparable nor relevant. Try again.

How is it not? This may not be all the athletes livelyhood, but it is a goal they spend the majority of their time trying to attain. I'll use a different example and compare it to a university degree. It's not our livelyhood. Its something you work years for and spend thousands of dollars on, hoping that it might give you an edge over others.

So I just graduated with an Econ degree not long ago. If someone came to me afterwords and said:

Them - "Great job! Now, your degree is completely void for this year. And you can't use it for the next four years. By then there will be better candidates for the jobs you want. And you will liekly have to move on to something else."

Me - "Well that's BS, why is it void?"

Them - "Because gays aren't allowed in Russia"

Me - "ummm..... Not seeing the correlation"

Them - "Well to protest, were not going to let any of our new top graduates enter the workforce."

Me - "Yeah, I'm cool if you want to be gay, but I would still like my life skills to be valid."

Them - "Nope sorry, this is important"

Me - "No argument here, just not sure what it has to do with my field."

Them - "So you're against human rights?"

Me - "No, just thinking you might be better served to have diplomacy handling this rather than a bunch of kids who just want to do their thing. Like maybe our leader should talk with theirs?"

Meanwhile, Russia's economists dreams all come true, and gays continue to be persecuted because no one cares that Canada's economists are protesting, outside of Canadians.

I think EE's question is valid. Would you give up your life long dream to send an ulimately futile message? I'm not saying that no one will notice, but the only way this changes is from inside Russia itself. And sadly, it will be at the expense of quite a few gay people I would think. Just like woman's rights, black peoples rights, and all those before that have faced persecution, THEY are the only ones who can truely cause change.

It's tough to get this point across without sounding like I'm completely apathetic towards the situation, but its more of a feeling that while the sentiment is honorable, the proposed delivery is misguided IMO.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by valo403

No, sorry but it's not. A boycott doesn't result in an athlete losing their job as an athlete (which is hardly a job to begin with considering the pay). They'd still be carded athletes.

And I'm not out of touch at all. I know people who are in serious contention for olympic spots.

While I'm not ignorant and realize that in some countries these amateur athletes can make a lot of money if the win medals the vast majority are just that. Amateur athletes which do not make a lot of money at all.

You are out of touch because you aren't in their shoes. You aren't making a sacrifice but you are expecting them to.

Why doesn't the NHL cease operations in the fall to protest? Why does everyone expect such sacrifice from amateur athletes, the vast majority are regular people that aren't remotely close to being millionares?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Wormius

That said, it would be nice to see athletes wear something in support in the opening ceremonies... Rainbow toques?

Yes I agree this is the type of support that is reasonable to expect of these amatuer athletes.

[Coach]

I also think that lost in all of this is that the many countries do not follow or care about the Winter Olympics. Including many of those that participate.

What they should do is schedule some Summit meetings in Russia. I would be fine with Canada boycotting those over this issue.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Wearing rainbow touques, with the vagueness of the law and Russia being Russia, would almost certainly result in charges against athletes who did. No doubt they would consider that propaganda, especially if people are being charged for just talking about gay rights in Russia (and yes, they are).

[Daradon]

What if you are a gay athlete? Do you go work over personality, or personality over work?

More importantly, does this ruling worry you?

Edit: Worried as in looking over your shoulder.

Holy smokes! Maybe that's the whole point.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Daradon

What if you are a gay athlete? Do you go work over personality, or personality over work?

More importantly, does this ruling worry you?

How, as an athlete, could you be 100% on your game knowing the country you're in would like to arrest you at any point it deems necessary because of who you are?

How do you mentally prepare?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because I don't want to get arrested...the whole.farking.point.

Hypothetically, if you were allowed to protest without being arrested, would the majority of the people here who want the athlete's boycotting the Olympics be willing to take 2 weeks vacation from their job, spend a couple thousand dollars of their own money and fly to Russia to protest? I somehow doubt it. And that's just people giving up a few thousand dollars in salaries / flight money. Imagine telling someone who's trained day in and day out for 4 years just to participate in the Olympics that they can't go.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Just pointing out that the Canadian umbrella of winter athletes is just 200 not thousands. Most seem to be referencing Canada doing something but if you want to talk about every country boycotting then you get 2,000 to 3,000 yes.

Not sure how many gay people are in Russia out of their 145,000,000 total population.

Probably about 20.

Million.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Wearing rainbow touques, with the vagueness of the law and Russia being Russia, would almost certainly result in charges against athletes who did. No doubt they would consider that propaganda, especially if people are being charged for just talking about gay rights in Russia (and yes, they are).

Having athletes from other nations be arrested simply for wearing toques would have infinitely more of an impact on the issue than not showing up at all.

"Who says they're "gay" toques? Its just a rainbow...."

[Coach]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Hypothetically, if you were allowed to protest without being arrested, would the majority of the people here who want the athlete's boycotting the Olympics be willing to take 2 weeks vacation from their job, spend a couple thousand dollars of their own money and fly to Russia to protest? I somehow doubt it. And that's just people giving up a few thousand dollars in salaries / flight money. Imagine telling someone who's trained day in and day out for 4 years just to participate in the Olympics that they can't go.

This has been said before, but can we all agree that there is a lot more than 4 years of work being put into this on the athletes part? This is a life-long endevour, most of whom will never even have sniff again.