Windows 8 Tablets: iPad killer? iPad Competitor? Windows Killer?

[FanIn80]

I love my Surface Pro. It's actually starting to turn into my main laptop lately... I had the RT version, which was pretty good as well, but the desktop metaphor that was attached to it kept driving me nuts. It would sucker me into thinking I was using a real computer, and then laugh at me whenever I tried to download an executable and install it. The Pro is awesome though. Highly recommended for sure, but just make sure you get the Type Cover for it. I love this thing.

I still use my iPad mini all the time though. I take it with me everywhere I go, whereas I'll only bring the Surface Pro if I'm going to a meeting or think I'll need to get some work done while I'm out or something like that.

It's amazing the kind of crap I can do while I'm out having a coffee nowadays. It's hard to believe I actually grew up and survived over 30 years without being able to do any of this!

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

It's amazing the kind of crap I can do while I'm out having a coffee nowadays. It's hard to believe I actually grew up and survived over 30 years without being able to do any of this!

La plus ca change..finding a dial up line at the local coffee shop to jack into your favourite BBS was always a challenge though.

The model 100 still has a cult following, and I don't blame the cultists, they were great little machines.

[oilyfan]

I have a Surface Pro through work and I enjoy it. For the most part it is a very good device that bridges that laptop/tablet gap quite well. The aspect ratio on the tablet is nice, it is well built, the stylus and handwriting recognition is good, ability to run full fledged Windows applications is a big plus. There are weaknesses though:

1. Multi monitor support is very poor. My Surface is hooked up through a docking station to two monitors. For most part I am working on the desktop, because I don't touch monitors. But I would like to be able to put up the Metro interface on one monitors to take advantage of the live tiles, and use the desktop on the other to run traditional applications. Not possible.

2. The app store is weak, nowhere near the breath and depth of the apple app store

For personal use I still use my iPad at home and on the road. For creation of content of course the Surface is better.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I had the RT version, which was pretty good as well, but the desktop metaphor that was attached to it kept driving me nuts. It would sucker me into thinking I was using a real computer, and then laugh at me whenever I tried to download an executable and install it. The Pro is awesome though. Highly recommended for sure, but just make sure you get the Type Cover for it. I love this thing.

Yep, that's why I couldn't get the RT myself. I understand it's a specialized device but it just taunts you and teases you and then when you try to run some little app you really want and it won't work... I'd tear my hair out.

Waiting for the Surface refresh or the Nexus 10 refresh to see what tablet direction I will be heading in.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

La plus ca change..finding a dial up line at the local coffee shop to jack into your favourite BBS was always a challenge though.

The model 100 still has a cult following, and I don't blame the cultists, they were great little machines.

That was the first non-AppleIIe computer I used. They let us sign them out from school for an evening and I was able to connect to some BBS at Simon Fraser University.

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Waiting for the Surface refresh or the Nexus 10 refresh to see what tablet direction I will be heading in.

I know it is obvious but the Surface 2 is in the works: http://www.zdnet.com/nvidia-ceo-reve...pp-7000019199/

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

I know it is obvious but the Surface 2 is in the works: http://www.zdnet.com/nvidia-ceo-reve...pp-7000019199/

Why the hell is Microsoft continuing to push RT? With the new Haswell chips, they can make a Surface Pro tablet with the same dimensions and battery life as the RT. What is the point of sticking to a crippled OS? They think Outlook will be the "killer app", but I can't see how. Obviously this is trying to market the RT to businesses, but that will be an abysmal failure. Being in IT I can just imagine the disaster it would be to try and introduce the RT to users, the first time they to install a regular desktop app the helpdesk would get flooded with calls

I bought an Asus Vivotab Smart for $450, and it has full Windows 8. It's thinner than an ipad, has a battery that lasts 9 hours, and I can install whatever I want on it. Replace the Intel Atom chip with a Haswell, and it would be the perfect tablet. I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't see this

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Why the hell is Microsoft continuing to push RT?

My guess - because what draw is there to create Windows Store apps when you can just create an x86/x64 desktop application?

As for Outlook being the killer app, I can see it for businesses. A lot of our account managers use Surface RTs, but people live and die by their Outlook. There have been HUGE steps with the latest version of Outlook Web App in Exchange 2013 / Office 365 in making it less painful to go without a full Outlook client, but most people aren't there yet.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

My guess - because what draw is there to create Windows Store apps when you can just create an x86/x64 desktop application?

As for Outlook being the killer app, I can see it for businesses. A lot of our account managers use Surface RTs, but people live and die by their Outlook. There have been HUGE steps with the latest version of Outlook Web App in Exchange 2013 / Office 365 in making it less painful to go without a full Outlook client, but most people aren't there yet.

It's one thing for Microsoft account managers to use Surface RT's, but try giving them to a regular business user. A device that mimics full Windows 8, and has really no way for the user to know otherwise until they decide to use a regular desktop app. They key advantage that Microsoft has over Apple and Google in the tablet space is that they can put a full desktop OS there with a touch friendly UI. By removing that with the RT, why wouldn't someone just choose one of the others that already have hundreds of thousands of apps available?

[psicodude]

My opinion is that they are still working on RT because they feel they need to compete head-to-head with iOS and Android to remain competitive to the non-business user. RT was supposed to be targeted at the younger demographics that the competition absolutely owns. In other words, RT is the lost leader that keeps MS relevant in the market, and then make your profit when they decide to use Pro when they enter the workforce.

Or something like that.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

What is the point of sticking to a crippled OS?

This is where people get it backwards - the existing Win32/Win64 API that sits on top of the NT kernel is the crippled OS. It's way, way overburdened with backwards compatibility and death by a million compromises in design.

The managed code model and new application architecture/API's developed for the Metro presentation/interface is the way forward, whether or not they stick with Metro as we know it today as an actual user interface.

RT is strategic in other regards - most importantly, in providing an ARM platform which will allow Windows to continue proliferating in the low power/low cost space. People saying that you can get an Atom processor to fit the power and price envelopes occupied by ARM today are getting it backwards too - who cares if you can get Atom to run 9 hours in current form factors - what that really means is you can get ARM to run in an even smaller physical and power envelope for even less money. 7 billion people aren't buying $600 Atom based tablets, many of them are going to buy $149 tablets, and you aren't building anything with Intel inside (yet) for that price.

[Mike F]

Anyone tried Bluestacks for their Surface Pro or PC yet? Allowing you to play all Android apps seems too good to be true.

It would also be nice to start generating a discussion on favorite or recommend Windows apps a la the Android Apps thread.

So far I've stuck with the stock apps for mail and calendar, and supplemented the stock Bing News app with News Republic and News Bento.

One small recommendation: if you're a fan of word games/puzzles, check out 7 Little Words.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Anyone tried Bluestacks for their Surface Pro or PC yet? Allowing you to play all Android apps seems too good to be true.

It would also be nice to start generating a discussion on favorite or recommend Windows apps a la the Android Apps thread.

So far I've stuck with the stock apps for mail and calendar, and supplemented the stock Bing News app with News Republic and News Bento.

One small recommendation: if you're a fan of word games/puzzles, check out 7 Little Words.

Tried installing it on my ASUS Vivotab Smart, but I'm guessing the Atom processor just doesn't have the juice for it

[TorqueDog]

Haven't tried it yet, but I'll check it out.

[edslunch]

Surface Pro 2 announced. Better specs but I think they're in trouble when kickstand improvements are called out as a major feature

http://www.cnet.com/2300-3126_7-10018346.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-5760...er-components/

[chemgear]

Hmm October release. I think the new iPad might be coming down the pipe around the same time as well.

I would be interesting to see how they sell head to head with timing like that.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Surface Pro 2 announced. Better specs but I think they're in trouble when kickstand improvements are called out as a major feature

Not really - one of the weaknesses of the first Surface was attempting to use it on your lap was not a great experience. The redesigned kickstand aims to fix that.

Did anyone see this? http://www.surfaceremixproject.com/

[chemgear]

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/23/m...same-problems/

What's the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing several times and expecting a different outcome. While we wouldn't suggest that Microsoft's finest minds are in need of urgent medical care, it does seem as if the company's executives have failed to heed the lessons doled out this summer. After all, it was only a few months ago that Microsoft had to admit that very few Surface RT tablets had been sold, and booked a $900 million loss on inventory that remains rotting in warehouses.

At today's launch of Microsoft's second Windows RT-running slate, Surface chief Panos Panay opened his remarks by saying that the "Surface 2 is not subtle, but is a revamp. It is not the simple changes that everybody wants, but it's the changes people need." Unfortunately, the changes that he then went on to describe involved making the device thinner, faster and giving it a full-HD display -- criticisms that few had leveled at the first generation of the hardware. No, the problems that every critic had were the limitations of the Surface's operating system: Windows RT. Not that you'd know it from today's event. In fact, Microsoft went out of its way to downplay the fact that the Surface 2 runs RT, mentioning the ambitious Windows-on-ARM project only three times in an hour. But why was the star of the show reduced to such a bit-part role?

While Microsoft has hoped that a small price cut and improved specifications will dazzle the market, the gnawing hole at the heart of Windows RT remains. With no other manufacturer, as yet, on-board to produce new Windows RT hardware, Microsoft will have to plough this furrow alone -- and judging what has happened over the past year, we're not sure it's capable of engineering a turnaround.

[Anduril]

If I had the money, the Surface 2 would certainly be a worthy choice but the price point will be a tad too high for most people to bother paying attention to.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Finally took the plunge on one of these (Original v1) as price has finally dropped to $498 on one of these. That I can justfy (it's really an i5 ultrabook), whereas at $1000 it's a bit too spendy. Staples has a promo where MS covers (v1) are $40 off so a Touch cover is only $40.

Yes the S2 has better battery life, but my plan is that if the Touch cover sucks and I find battery life is truly lacking - I'll get the new Power cover for $100-$150 on sale or something and still be far ahead price wise having only spend $498 + $40.

Will let you know impressions...