U20 tournament - Junior Evaluation Camp (Sieloff, Gillies, Monahan, Poirier & Janko)

[Hockey]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Can't believe that Adam Erne fell to the 2nd round. I really wanted the flames to take him with the 22nd pick. Tampa with a steal.

Noticed the announcer pronounced his name Ernie. I was thought it was Earn. Which is it?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why is that depressing? He is expected to be lights out this year, it would be a massive disaapointment if he wasn't. Still way too early to say passing on him for Jankowksi was a mistake. I'm still happy with the Janko pick. If you think you can get a potential #1 centre you take one. Small, skilled wingers we're quite deep in so I like the attempt at a home run with Jankowksi.

Every centre is a "potential #1 centre". Draft the BPA.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by SebC

Every centre is a "potential #1 centre". Draft the BPA.

and obviously the Flames felt Jankowski was the best player available. So why is this an argument?

[Ashasx]

I wish we picked Teuvo, but once again, when Teuvo does well, everyone is like "stupid Flames", when he was picked at 17 and the Flames originally had the 14th pick. 3 picks afterwards.

Stupid Buffalo for taking Girgensons.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by macrov

Is this becoming a CP meme?

Well it's reality. But sure, we can call it a meme.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SebC

Every centre is a "potential #1 centre". Draft the BPA.

Not sure WTF you're talking about. Most centres taken are not potential #1 centres. In fact it's rare to find a potential #1 centre taken outside the top 10 of the draft except in deep years.

Pretty clear our scouts thought Jankowski was the BPA. Hopefully he will be.

[Hank Hill]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Can't believe that Adam Erne fell to the 2nd round. I really wanted the flames to take him with the 22nd pick. Tampa with a steal.

On TSN draft day coverage I think it was Pierre who said the fact that Ernes junior coach Patrick Roy passed on him with Colorado's second pick spoke volumes about the questions surrounding this player

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hank Hill

On TSN draft day coverage I think it was Pierre who said the fact that Ernes junior coach Patrick Roy passed on him with Colorado's second pick spoke volumes about the questions surrounding this player

Pierre was over the top in analysis once again.

Passing on Erne by Roy meant sweet FA when you understand that the Avs have a severe dearth of prospects on D, as evidenced by the rest of that draft. Roy and Sakic both know that you dont win in the NHL without a solid defense and good goaltending, so that is the route they took, particularly when you look at the depth they already have up front of good young players. Mackinnon was a no brainer, but beyond that they drafted for orginizational need.

[Henry Fool]

Not that it makes any difference, but Teuvo is 5'11''.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

and obviously the Flames felt Jankowski was the best player available. So why is this an argument?

They must have been really dumb to think Jankowski was the BPA at the time. He might have had the highest ceiling at the time but it's ludicrous to think he was the BPA, he was picked as a long term project and a big gamble.

[herashak]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

They must have been really dumb to think Jankowski was the BPA at the time. He might have had the highest ceiling at the time but it's ludicrous to think he was the BPA, he was picked as a long term project and a big gamble.

Well id figure the scouts know the bpa more than you do.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

They must have been really dumb to think Jankowski was the BPA at the time. He might have had the highest ceiling at the time but it's ludicrous to think he was the BPA, he was picked as a long term project and a big gamble.

It is a prospect draft. You draft the player you think will be the best player as a pro. Clearly, that is what they did. It is all about projection. Often, early success is an indicator of future success but not always. There is no award for having the best players at 17/18. Succesful drafting is having the best player at 22 plus. Disagree with them or not, but the Flames picked who they thought projected to be the best player available.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

They must have been really dumb to think Jankowski was the BPA at the time. He might have had the highest ceiling at the time but it's ludicrous to think he was the BPA, he was picked as a long term project and a big gamble.

When drafting 18 year olds you do have to project what the player can be 3-4 years down the road. Blake Wheeler was a headscratcher pick in his draft at 5. Ultimately it ended badly for the Coyotes....but if you redo that draft today, Wheeler is probably one of the 10 best guys picked.

Many guys can dominate other teen agers, but won't do the same thing against men 5 years later. So the BPA vs project thing has a lot of grey area.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

It is a prospect draft. You draft the player you think will be the best player as a pro. Clearly, that is what they did. It is all about projection. Often, early success is an indicator of future success but not always. There is no award for having the best players at 17/18. Succesful drafting is having the best player at 22 plus. Disagree with them or not, but the Flames picked who they thought projected to be the best player available.

When someone says best player available they're usually talking about BPA at the draft hence the usage of that term.

Jankowski was not the best player available on the day he was drafted.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

When drafting 18 year olds you do have to project what the player can be 3-4 years down the road. Blake Wheeler was a headscratcher pick in his draft at 5. Ultimately it ended badly for the Coyotes....but if you redo that draft today, Wheeler is probably one of the 10 best guys picked.

Many guys can dominate other teen agers, but won't do the same thing against men 5 years later. So the BPA vs project thing has a lot of grey area.

100% agreed and I don't mind the Jankowski pick, I think it was a good pick. But he still wasn't the BPA which is what the poster said the scouts obviously thought.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

When someone says best player available they're usually talking about BPA at the draft hence the usage of that term.

Jankowski was not the best player available on the day he was drafted.

In my experience, drafting the BPA means not taking position or organizational needs into consideration, and just taking the best prospect, be it centre, wing, defenseman, or goalie.

You seem to be mixing BPA with 'most NHL ready', which refers to a guy's current talent and physical level, not his overall projection as a prospect.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Jankowski was not the best player available on the day he was drafted.

Teams don't draft the best junior players they draft the players who they think will be the best NHLers. So you can definitely argue that Jankowski was the best player available at the time. We have to wait a few years to see if that was correct though.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Not that it makes any difference, but Teuvo is 5'11''.

Which I still count as small or below average. Obviously he's not as tiny as guys like Gionta, St. Louis, but 5'11 guys can get physically dominated in the NHL. Sven had problems fighting through checking last year at the same height. I consider Baertschi a small winger at 5'11 too

[Enoch Root]

the whole BPA argument is pretty silly...

player 1 has size, signs of skill, good hockey IQ, and is a decent skater but needs some development. Tons of potential, but tons of risk

player two is a big, solid guy who plays hard, stands up for his teammates, and plays a consistent north-south game. Not as much upside or skill as other guys, but is already close to being NHL ready and has a high probability of making it

player three is a 6'4" d-man with a great shot but still needs to learn how to play in his own end

Which one is the best player?

They are apples and oranges and they are all prospects. The BPA is the one you like the best.

At the top of the draft, it is pretty straightforward to say that MacKinnon, Jones and Drouin were the best players available. But as you move along, they are all projects and it is a question of which set of skills, tools, and shortcomings you like the best.

The Philly video showed that pretty clearly. The Philly scouts were valuing d-men higher and they value size very highly, whereas others might put more emphasis on skating or whatever.

When you're 20 or 30 or 100 guys down the list, BPA is the guy you like the best.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Mike F

In my experience, drafting the BPA means not taking position or organizational needs into consideration, and just taking the best prospect, be it centre, wing, defenseman, or goalie.

You seem to be mixing BPA with 'most NHL ready', which refers to a guy's current talent and physical level, not his overall projection as a prospect.

I'm not sure how I'm confusing the terms when Jankowski was a big off the board pick with the huge majority of scouts not rating him even close to where he was picked.

BPA has always meant best player available at the time of the draft which means the team is taking the safer pick instead of a gamble.